BA Prospect Report

[Slade-OH]

Trey Mancini and Ofelky Peralta are both mentioned with writeups in this morning's BA prospect report

Mancini: "When the Orioles re-signed Mark Trumbo, there was talk Mancini wouldn’t have a role with the big club, especially with Chris Davis signed through 2022. But Baltimore’s No. 5 prospect impressed Buck Showalter this spring and the O’s have found a place for him in the outfield. He’s making that pay off. The 2013 eighth-rounder belted two homers Sunday in an 11-4 win over Toronto, giving his four this season, and dating back to last year, seven in his first 12 big league games. Mancini shows good bat speed and his outfield defense is playable."

Peralta: "Ray’s triple was the only hit Peralta allowed in five innings for Frederick on Sunday, although the Mudcats rallied against the Keys’ bullpen. But it was an effective outing for Baltimore’s No. 12 prospect. He struck out nine and walked four, continuing to exhibit below-average control. But Peralta has a live arm, a stellar changeup and repeatable delivery."

[sportsfan8703]

Good to hear about Peralta.  He's a guy in the past that we probably would have rushed ala Daniel Cabrera.  Let the guy go level to level and hopefully the command gets better.  

[Slade-OH]

4/24: Cody Sedlock mentioned in this morning's BA prospect report.

Sedlock: "Baltimore’s No. 2 prospect allowed just one hit in five innings Sunday as high Class A Frederick blanked Salem (Red Sox) 6-0. Sedlock walked three and struck out five. The workhorse former Illini ace is 3-0, 1.64 with 16 strikeouts and eight walks in 22 innings. Sedlock’s fastball has heavy sink and late life and he shows great competitiveness."

[weams]

On 4/17/2017 at 3:22 PM, sportsfan8703 said:

  He's a guy in the past that we probably would have rushed ala Daniel Cabrera. 

Would more seasoning afforded him different success than the steroid driven type that he enjoyed? I think Daniel was always an illusion. 

[jabba72]

Cabrera was actually 23 when he was called up, so that isnt very rushed. It was assumed he had nothing to prove by pitching in Bowie with his velocity at the time. Peralta is still 21. Noway he is remotely ready to pitch in Baltimore this year anyway, but the repeatable delivery is very good news. 

[MelvinLouis]

On 17/4/2017 at 3:22 PM, sportsfan8703 said:

Good to hear about Peralta.  He's a guy in the past that we probably would have rushed ala Daniel Cabrera.  Let the guy go level to level and hopefully the command gets better.  

 

Exactly

[Matt Right]

Peralta is a great player

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, jabba72 said:

Cabrera was actually 23 when he was called up, so that isnt very rushed. It was assumed he had nothing to prove by pitching in Bowie with his velocity at the time. Peralta is still 21. Noway he is remotely ready to pitch in Baltimore this year anyway, but the repeatable delivery is very good news. 

He was rushed in the sense that he spent the prior year at Delmarva (with a middling 4.24 ERA), skipped Frederick, and then was called to the majors after  5 starts at Bowie.     He'd pitched 5 games above low A and was installed in the rotation.    I'd call that rushed.   

[ChuckS]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

He was rushed in the sense that he spent the prior year at Delmarva (with a middling 4.24 ERA), skipped Frederick, and then was called to the majors after  5 starts at Bowie.     He'd pitched 5 games above low A and was installed in the rotation.    I'd call that rushed.   

That was the organization norm back in the early/mid 2000's.  Guys were promoted without justification and it probably hurt their development in many cases:  Jeff Fiorintino, Ed Rogers, Hayden Penn, Tim Raines Jr., and Denny Bautista are just some of the names I recall.  

[jabba72]

2 hours ago, ChuckS said:

That was the organization norm back in the early/mid 2000's.  Guys were promoted without justification and it probably hurt their development in many cases:  Jeff Fiorintino, Ed Rogers, Hayden Penn, Tim Raines Jr., and Denny Bautista are just some of the names I recall.  

This is happening in recent years too. Hoes and Avery were aggressively promoted without much success. Jomar Reyes debuting at Frederick last year at 19 is another example. He fell off the radar for alot of people, but is doing much better in the early going this year. DJ Stewart in Bowie this year some think is aggressive, but at this point he isnt really seen as a prospect.  

[ChuckS]

7 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

This is happening in recent years too. Hoes and Avery were aggressively promoted without much success. Jomar Reyes debuting at Frederick last year at 19 is another example. He fell off the radar for alot of people, but is doing much better in the early going this year. DJ Stewart in Bowie this year some think is aggressive, but at this point he isnt really seen as a prospect.  

I'm not sure I agree with that.  Hoes and Avery both had over 400 at bats at Triple A and saw success there before getting significant time with the big league club. 

The players I mentioned in my previous post got promoted from Double A (Single A in Fiorentino's case) and most had limited to middling success at Bowie before skipping their way to Baltimore.  Reyes deserved to start last season in Frederick. He had a .774 OPS in Delmarva the season before.  I don't really have an opinion on Stewart.  

I think the organization has err'd on the side of being conservative recently.  I would really like to see guys who are old for their level be pushed a little more in particular.  Not to Baltimore, but up in the ladder in the farm.  Ring and Muckenhirn (22 in Delmarva) are guys I would like to see get the quick promotion in particular.  

[Frobby]

12 hours ago, ChuckS said:

I'm not sure I agree with that.  Hoes and Avery both had over 400 at bats at Triple A and saw success there before getting significant time with the big league club. 

The players I mentioned in my previous post got promoted from Double A (Single A in Fiorentino's case) and most had limited to middling success at Bowie before skipping their way to Baltimore.  Reyes deserved to start last season in Frederick. He had a .774 OPS in Delmarva the season before.  I don't really have an opinion on Stewart.  

I think the organization has err'd on the side of being conservative recently.  I would really like to see guys who are old for their level be pushed a little more in particular.  Not to Baltimore, but up in the ladder in the farm.  Ring and Muckenhirn (22 in Delmarva) are guys I would like to see get the quick promotion in particular.  

The Fiorentino promotion was a freak thing and quite brief.   I don't think anyone thought he was ready for the majors.    In fact, in most of the examples you gave from that period, the promotions were very temporary.     The one that probably should have been mentioned, but wasn't, was the successful promotion of Nick Markakis, who only played about 6-7 weeks of AA.

As to Hoes, I don't see how he was rushed at all.    Avery was promoted more aggressively all the way through the minors.

[ChuckS]

23 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The Fiorentino promotion was a freak thing and quite brief.   I don't think anyone thought he was ready for the majors.    In fact, in most of the examples you gave from that period, the promotions were very temporary.     The one that probably should have been mentioned, but wasn't, was the successful promotion of Nick Markakis, who only played about 6-7 weeks of AA.

As to Hoes, I don't see how he was rushed at all.    Avery was promoted more aggressively all the way through the minors.

Yes, because they failed quite miserably and were sent back to the minors.  

Every now and then you get a special player like Machado or Markakis (similar to Benintendi) that can make the jump. Those guys are typically first round draft picks and among the top prospects in the game which can't be said for the guys we were yo-yoing in the early 2000's.  

We promoted Hayden Penn to Baltimore at age 20 after he put up a 3.83 ERA in Bowie in 2005.  He had a 6.34 ERA in eight starts. That's just insane and setting up a player to fail.  

[Frobby]

31 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Yes, because they failed quite miserably and were sent back to the minors.  

Every now and then you get a special player like Machado or Markakis (similar to Benintendi) that can make the jump. Those guys are typically first round draft picks and among the top prospects in the game which can't be said for the guys we were yo-yoing in the early 2000's.  

We promoted Hayden Penn to Baltimore at age 20 after he put up a 3.83 ERA in Bowie in 2005.  He had a 6.34 ERA in eight starts. That's just insane and setting up a player to fail.  

Penn's a complicated case.   I happened to be at his major league debut, in which he pitched pretty well.     After five starts, he was sporting a decent 4.23 ERA.   Then he got shelled his next two times out and got sent back down, threw one more game for the O's in September and did pretty well.   The next year he posted a 2.26 ERA in Ottawa, which was then our AAA team. (Remember that?  Ugh!).   He had a series of medical maladies and freak injuries that year and afterwards and lost his way.    I've always thought the Penn I saw in his major league debut had the talent to be a big league pitcher.   I don't think his early promotion really screwed him up (though it undoubtedly was premature); it was all the weird things that happened in 2006 and afterwards.    

[sportsfan8703]

On 4/24/2017 at 9:36 PM, ChuckS said:

I'm not sure I agree with that.  Hoes and Avery both had over 400 at bats at Triple A and saw success there before getting significant time with the big league club. 

The players I mentioned in my previous post got promoted from Double A (Single A in Fiorentino's case) and most had limited to middling success at Bowie before skipping their way to Baltimore.  Reyes deserved to start last season in Frederick. He had a .774 OPS in Delmarva the season before.  I don't really have an opinion on Stewart.  

I think the organization has err'd on the side of being conservative recently.  I would really like to see guys who are old for their level be pushed a little more in particular.  Not to Baltimore, but up in the ladder in the farm.  Ring and Muckenhirn (22 in Delmarva) are guys I would like to see get the quick promotion in particular.  

Reyes was ready.  He had a .774 in a full season of Delmarva.  No reason to have him repeat that level.  He just had that broken wrist.  Sapped all his power.  Look at his numbers this year in Frederick:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=reyes-000jom

He's back.  The guy just turned 20 in February.  

If you do want an example of a guy that has been rushed recently I'd say Josh Hart.  Got promoted to Frederick after posting a sub .600 OPS in Delmarva at the age of 19.  I think draft status and "potential" had more do to with that.