If Smith goes to the DL, who is called up?

[sportsfan8703]

22 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

I really don't feel like seeing any more of Tyler Wilson.

Our depth SP's have been struggling in AAA.  I fully expect Wilson to go down there and post a sub 3.00 ERA.  He's just a guy that needs top flight command, a new gimmick pitch, or Asher's horse steroids.  

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Really?  He is in AA and he think it will take 3 years for him to get to the majors?  Well he has three options so they would not be used up until 2020.

Remember, he was a good not great hitter in low A last year.    Based on his first 14 games, everyone's now assuming he'll ace AA.    Well, I don't assume that.   Just for example, Mike Yastrzemski jumped from low A to high A to AA in one year, and posted an .818 OPS in his first 14 AA games.    Everyone was giddy about him at the time.    Well, he cooled off and ended the year with a .723 OPS in AA action in 43 games.    Then he repeated AA the next year and posted a .688 OPS. Then last year he started off well in AA, got promoted and had a .680 OPS in AAA.    Now, imagine if we had burned his first option in 2014 when he was hot in AA for 2-3 weeks.     He'd be out of options now.    

Obviously, every player is different.    Maybe Mullins is going to prove that his hot start is no fluke.    But to me, I'd rather see him prove it for at least a few months, rather than start burning options because the guy had a good couple of weeks.   

[sportsfan8703]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Remember, he was a good not great hitter in low A last year.    Based on his first 14 games, everyone's now assuming he'll ace AA.    Well, I don't assume that.   Just for example, Mike Yastrzemski jumped from low A to high A to AA in one year, and posted an .818 OPS in his first 14 AA games.    Everyone was giddy about him at the time.    Well, he cooled off and ended the year with a .723 OPS in AA action in 43 games.    Then he repeated AA the next year and posted a .688 OPS. Then last year he started off well in AA, got promoted and had a .680 OPS in AAA.    Now, imagine if we had burned his first option in 2014 when he was hot in AA for 2-3 weeks.     He'd be out of options now.    

Obviously, every player is different.    Maybe Mullins is going to prove that his hot start is no fluke.    But to me, I'd rather see him prove it for at least a few months, rather than start burning options because the guy had a good couple of weeks.   

Damn, I've had the Mike Yaz comparison in the back of my mind but just don't want it to be true.  

[eddie83]

If Joey will be back soon then I guess there isn't a big rush to make a 40 man move. They could always do so when they absolutely have to.  I like Smith, I hope this isn't a year long issue. 

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Does anyone really care if Yaz had no options left.  Dickerson makes the most sense.  However, if they call up Mullins I wouldn't call it insane.  If he's out of options in 4 years and still hasn't made the team then it's probably not a big deal.

 

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Would anyone sweat Mike Yaz being out of options?  I get your point and agree but if Cedric Mullens hasn't made the team by 2020 then it's probably not a big deal.

So, I guess you made your points -- twice!    I agree it's not the biggest deal in the world.   I'd care more if there was a similar situation with a pitcher.   

[thezeroes]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

You mean stay like Gausman did?  Gausman was yo-yoed for years by Buck and Dan.  I don't think what you are saying lines up with what the O's do.   If they feel he is the best fit they will bring him up of 5 days and then option him back.

Two different types of players/usage.  Compare Schoop, Machado for positional players.  Pitchers can be used as Bullpen Arms and Starters while being bounced.  The history for players to get called up in position spots usually do not get returned willy-nilly as they are more in need of being consistently used at a young age and have trouble adjusting from a full-time roll to an occasional part time role.  I know this does not fit your narrative but it does not change the fact that the keepers at positions have not been Yo-yoed.

[Tx Oriole]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

 

The guy has played 14 games above low A.    He got off to a great start -- good for him -- but there's a very good chance that he's 2-3 years away from being able to hit major league pitching.   I don't want to start burning his options now based on 14 games in AA.

I agree with you.

[wildcard]

3 hours ago, thezeroes said:

Two different types of players/usage.  Compare Schoop, Machado for positional players.  Pitchers can be used as Bullpen Arms and Starters while being bounced.  The history for players to get called up in position spots usually do not get returned willy-nilly as they are more in need of being consistently used at a young age and have trouble adjusting from a full-time roll to an occasional part time role.  I know this does not fit your narrative but it does not change the fact that the keepers at positions have not been Yo-yoed.

Texas yo-yoed Davis for years.  He is a 161M dollar keeper.  Following your approach Rickard and Mancini can not be optioned.   I don't think that is the way O's look at it.  They have a group of players with options in the majors and minors and who ever fits best stays.  Who ever doesn't get optioned.  It doesn't matter if they are pitchers or position players.

[PaulFolk]

10 hours ago, wildcard said:

I see two possibilities:

1) Wilson is recalled until Rickard is ready.

2) Mullins is called up until Rickard is ready.  Santander goes on the 60 day DL.

Verrett could also be on the bubble for DFA if they don't want to put Santander on the 60 day DL.  

What is your guess?                                                                                                                                                               

Neither. I think Dickerson or Schafer would come up. That would give the O's a second corner OF defensive replacement to go along with Gentry. That way you don't have to have one of Trumbo, Mancini, or Kim in the field with a lead in the late innings.

[sportsfan8703]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Texas yo-yoed Davis for years.  He is a 161M dollar keeper.  Following your approach Rickard and Mancini can not be optioned.   I don't think that is the way O's look at it.  They have a group of players with options in the majors and minors and who ever fits best stays.  Who ever doesn't get optioned.  It doesn't matter if they are pitchers or position players.

RIght now our only position player in the minors, with options, is Chance Sisco.  We don't quite have the flexibility with position players as we do with pitchers.  Dickerson would have to be DFA'd to go back to the minors.  I believe that Schaffer and Urrutia could be added and have an option left, so they would require a DFA.  

I hear there is this RH batter with the Long Island Ducks that could help out in a pinch.  

[thezeroes]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Texas yo-yoed Davis for years.  He is a 161M dollar keeper.  Following your approach Rickard and Mancini can not be optioned.   I don't think that is the way O's look at it.  They have a group of players with options in the majors and minors and who ever fits best stays.  Who ever doesn't get optioned.  It doesn't matter if they are pitchers or position players.

Not YEARS, just until they ran out of options because he was placed on the Forty Pre-Mature and ran OUT of Options.  They had a GLUT of his type player and needed a reliever hence they knew he would get collected by some club if DFA'd they Gave Him Away in a trade.  Is this what you want for Mullins???  You want to have him as the next Nolan Reimold??? 

 

[wildcard]

13 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

Neither. I think Dickerson or Schafer would come up. That would give the O's a second corner OF defensive replacement to go along with Gentry. That way you don't have to have one of Trumbo, Mancini, or Kim in the field with a lead in the late innings.

I agreed with sportsfan8703 on this approach on page 1 of this thread.

[wildcard]

26 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

Not YEARS, just until they ran out of options because he was placed on the Forty Pre-Mature and ran OUT of Options.  They had a GLUT of his type player and needed a reliever hence they knew he would get collected by some club if DFA'd they Gave Him Away in a trade.  Is this what you want for Mullins???  You want to have him as the next Nolan Reimold??? 

 

You said: "The history for players to get called up in position spots usually do not get returned willy-nilly as they are more in need of being consistently used at a young age and have trouble adjusting from a full-time roll to an occasional part time role."

I don't know about the willy-nilly part but Davis bounced between AAA and the majors for 3 years - yes, years.   And he turned out to be a keeper.  So I can't agree that position players can't go back and forth to AAA when needed.  And no it does not turn them into Reimold until they get hurt or continually  under perform when given a chance.   I see no reason to think the Mullins will turn into Reimold. To begin with he seems to be a good defensive player and baserunner which will earn him time in the majors.  I think Mancini could see more time in AAA and not ruin his career if that is the beat thing for the team.

I tend to agree that Dickerson may be a better choice.  But I would not be surprised to see Mullins promoted for 5 days and then returned to AA.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

You said: "The history for players to get called up in position spots usually do not get returned willy-nilly as they are more in need of being consistently used at a young age and have trouble adjusting from a full-time roll to an occasional part time role."

I don't know about the willy-nilly part but Davis bounced between AAA and the majors for 3 years - yes, years.   And he turned out to be a keeper.  So I can't agree that position players can't go back and forth to AAA when needed.  And no it does not turn them into Reimold until they get hurt or continually  under perform when given a chance.   I see no reason to think the Mullins will turn into Reimold. To begin with he seems to be a good defensive player and baserunner which will earn him time in the majors.  I think Mancini could see more time in AAA and not ruin his career if that is the beat thing for the team.

I tend to agree that Dickerson may be a better choice.  But I would not be surprised to see Mullins promoted for 5 days and then returned to AA.

Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't your observation about how some of these hitters (like Davis) used up their options support my argument that Mullins should not be called up now?

[thezeroes]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

You said: "The history for players to get called up in position spots usually do not get returned willy-nilly as they are more in need of being consistently used at a young age and have trouble adjusting from a full-time roll to an occasional part time role."

I should have added that disclaimer of "The Orioles".  It was my fault for thinking that that was understood.  By now correcting my error that you did not understand, who have the Orioles kept long term that was a positional player and bounced back and forth to the Minors???