TT: The other shoe has dropped

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, TheEldestTorres said:

I think my issue is easy to write off if you are a "wins are all that matter" type of person, but I've found that this team isn't very fun to be a fan of right now. I look at younger teams who have stocked their farm system and I'm jealous because their future is bright. I'm not saying this season is finished and the O's are done, but it's about more than that for me. This may not apply to other people, but I want to root for a team that is building toward something, not riding out the tail end of a window and milking it when we should be selling. I know the franchise doesn't exist to satisfy fans like me who want the game played a certain way, but even when we are winning I'm wishing we were winning another way. I don't mean to add to the pile on during the slump, but I've been feeling this way for a while. Hopefully SOMEONE agrees with me.

Part of my enjoyment comes from the franchise building aspect of baseball.  While I don't think Dan has done a poor job in reaching his goals those same goals are not the ones I wish for the team to have.

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

In May:

Blue Jays  13-9
Yankees 12-9
Red Sox 11-10
Ray  12-11
Orioles 10-12

I think the WC will come out of the East as well, but let's be honest here, the Orioles played over their heads in April when they played .652 baseball (15-8) while other teams were figuring out who they are. The Orioles are 18-19 this season in 9-inning games. 

Well, you may very well be right....but as long as we are being honest...IF you think the Orioles played over their head in April and this is who they are...you really do not need to fret and get all worked up like this.  The team you describe will finish last in the AL East.  The Orioles might.  But I do not think they are as good as April or as bad as we have recently seen.

Oh and another very important stat to link all prognostications on before Memorial Day.  The Orioles are winless in all games they have been outscored. Regardless of innings played.  That's right.  O and 20!!!

[Tony-OH]

56 minutes ago, foxfield said:

Well, you may very well be right....but as long as we are being honest...IF you think the Orioles played over their head in April and this is who they are...you really do not need to fret and get all worked up like this.  The team you describe will finish last in the AL East.  The Orioles might.  But I do not think they are as good as April or as bad as we have recently seen.

Oh and another very important stat to link all prognostications on before Memorial Day.  The Orioles are winless in all games they have been outscored. Regardless of innings played.  That's right.  O and 20!!!

I'm pretty sure i said that. Clearly this team was playing over it's head in April, and clearly they are not as bad during this 13 game stretch. Saying that, there are a lot of signs that suggest they are closer to a .500 team than a 90-win team at this point. 

When you combine that with a farm system that looks worse than ever when it comes to impact talent and the same folks are drafting again this year, and it's doesn't give you a lot of hope this team is on the cusp of doing anything special for awhile.

Besides Mancini, Hays and Mountcastle, every other top prospect has been disappointing this year in one way or another. The pitching prospects have almost totally crapped the bed this year. It's almost truly mind boggling how bad they have been.

Look, I think people know me well enough that I'm not a negative nelly or a guy who always thinks everything is bad, but the farm system this year has been a huge, huge disappointment prospect wise and have little to no faith that Rajsich and his staff is going to suddenly turn around and have an impact draft.

That combined with the Orioles year after year putting together the same type of squad and hoping for a different outcome is beginning to wear on my positive vibes. I felt like this team could compete this year for a wild card if their pitching could be adequate. They very well still may. But the biggest issue is this organization needs a young talent infusion and since the drafting and international markets are not providing that, the only way they will be able to do that is to have a fire sale eventually.

I'm hoping the Orioles can find a way to make it work through smoke and mirrors this year, but if they are out of it by the All-Star break, they may need to seriously consider moving guys like Tillman, Brach, O'day, Schoop and even Machado.

I just don't see them every doing that so they will end up buyers or stand fast and the Orioles will stay the same.

[foxfield]

16 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I'm pretty sure i said that. Clearly this team was playing over it's head in April, and clearly they are not as bad during this 13 game stretch. Saying that, there are a lot of signs that suggest they are closer to a .500 team than a 90-win team at this point. 

When you combine that with a farm system that looks worse than ever when it comes to impact talent and the same folks are drafting again this year, and it's doesn't give you a lot of hope this team is on the cusp of doing anything special for awhile.

Besides Mancini, Hays and Mountcastle, every other top prospect has been disappointing this year in one way or another. The pitching prospects have almost totally crapped the bed this year. It's almost truly mind boggling how bad they have been.

Look, I think people know me well enough that I'm not a negative nelly or a guy who always thinks everything is bad, but the farm system this year has been a huge, huge disappointment prospect wise and have little to no faith that Rajsich and his staff is going to suddenly turn around and have an impact draft.

That combined with the Orioles year after year putting together the same type of squad and hoping for a different outcome is beginning to wear on my positive vibes. I felt like this team could compete this year for a wild card if their pitching could be adequate. They very well still may. But the biggest issue is this organization needs a young talent infusion and since the drafting and international markets are not providing that, the only way they will be able to do that is to have a fire sale eventually.

I'm hoping the Orioles can find a way to make it work through smoke and mirrors this year, but if they are out of it by the All-Star break, they may need to seriously consider moving guys like Tillman, Brach, O'day, Schoop and even Machado.

I just don't see them every doing that so they will end up buyers or stand fast and the Orioles will stay the same.

Two things and I'll drop this.  1) The difference between 90 and 82 wins are not clear enough for me to see from here. There is already quite a lot that has gone poorly and even to this point, with a tough schedule this team has fought pretty well.  2) Regarding the O's prospects, it also follows that it's a bit premature to lay down final grades, especially for pitchers.  I'm not ready to do that and I don't think you are either. But what do I know? I'm one of the idiots who thinks Manny signs a long term deal here. 

Carry on!

[Tx Oriole]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Dan does have some assets to deal if he were so inclined after the break.  Machado, Smith, Castillo, Brach, Givens.  Maybe a healthy Britton.  

But it still falls on the owner. He could overrule DD trading players. 

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Look, I think people know me well enough that I'm not a negative nelly or a guy who always thinks everything is bad, but the farm system this year has been a huge, huge disappointment prospect wise and have little to no faith that Rajsich and his staff is going to suddenly turn around and have an impact draft.

I never thought the farm system was good in the first place, so I can't say I'm that disappointed, except for Sedlock and Akin.     

On the bright side, to me, Mancini is WAY better than I'd been led to believe.    I'd been led to believe he couldn't play anywhere but 1B, was at best average there defensively, and had a below average bat for that position.    Instead (and I know it's still early), I've seen him playing a very adequate LF (with reasonable expectations that he'll improve with experience) and a plus bat that can play vs. RHP and LHP.    That's a pretty huge development.    

As you said, Mountcastle and Hays have been pretty impressive, and there's a handful of other hitters doing well.    Really, the only big offensive disappointment has been Sisco.    It's a shame that Mullins and Reyes are hurt right now, but they were both impressive in the early going, especially Mullins.

I've said in a few places that I think Gausman holds a huge key to the big league team's success, this year and over the next three.    I'm not giving up on him putting together a solid year just yet.   

[Three Run Homer]

This team isn't as bad as it has looked in the last 2 weeks, but we might be a week away from pulling out of this tailspin given the upcoming schedule.  

The biggest difference between this team and recent versions is the bullpen.  We went into the season an arm or two short in the bullpen, and Britton's injury and the bizarre decision to stick with a six man pen for so long made a bad situation worse.  One of the reasons the last two weeks have been so upsetting is that we are not used to seeing this team giving up leads so often late in games.  

While Britton may come back strong, I think the bullpen is going to continue to be a problem the rest of the season.  Asher has pitched well, but it's only a matter of time before he replaces Ubaldo in the rotation.  I cling to the possibility that Logan Verrett can help in the bullpen, but honestly he's had two good appearances there, and hasn't pitched well in Norfolk.  

I agree that it would be futile and unwise for Dan to pursue a Scott Feldman/Gerardo Parra type trade at the deadline if the O's are already 6 games or more out of the playoffs by that point.  But there is something that Dan could do right now to help this club:  trade Hyun Soo Kim for a competent middle reliever.  Kim has no role on this team but would make a quality platoon player, DH or pinch hitter for a team that values OBP.  He has an expiring contract and he is not expensive (and we could always eat salary if need be).  Someone could use him and we should be able to get something better than Stephan Crichton or Jayson Aquino in return.  

[webbrick2010]

2 hours ago, TheEldestTorres said:

I think my issue is easy to write off if you are a "wins are all that matter" type of person, but I've found that this team isn't very fun to be a fan of right now. I look at younger teams who have stocked their farm system and I'm jealous because their future is bright. I'm not saying this season is finished and the O's are done, but it's about more than that for me. This may not apply to other people, but I want to root for a team that is building toward something, not riding out the tail end of a window and milking it when we should be selling. I know the franchise doesn't exist to satisfy fans like me who want the game played a certain way, but even when we are winning I'm wishing we were winning another way. I don't mean to add to the pile on during the slump, but I've been feeling this way for a while. Hopefully SOMEONE agrees with me.

Well said, capture exactly my sentiment. I can't stand watching most of the O's hitters. I crave seeing a guy that can make regular contact and run the bases. To me the O's are boring. If you did a calculation of balls put in play for nine innings, which I guess would be AB's - K's -HR's they would be near a ML low. In other words the least amount of action plays per game. And the pitching staff has the highest WHIP in baseball. Long games with a lot of action by the opponent, no action by the O's except watching a guy trot around the bases. Boring to me

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Well said, capture exactly my sentiment. I can't stand watching most of the O's hitters. I crave seeing a guy that can make regular contact and run the bases. To me the O's are boring. If you did a calculation of balls put in play for nine innings, which I guess would be AB's - K's -HR's they would be near a ML low. In other words the least amount of action plays per game. And the pitching staff has the highest WHIP in baseball. Long games with a lot of action by the opponent, no action by the O's except watching a guy trot around the bases. Boring to me

I'm pretty much happy with winning no matter how it's accomplished.    In a perfect world I'd rather see a faster, higher OBP, higher contact rate team, but at the end of the day, give me the Orioles offense over, say, Cleveland's (at least, as of now).

[FlipTheBird]

5 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

Well said, capture exactly my sentiment. I can't stand watching most of the O's hitters. I crave seeing a guy that can make regular contact and run the bases. To me the O's are boring. If you did a calculation of balls put in play for nine innings, which I guess would be AB's - K's -HR's they would be near a ML low. In other words the least amount of action plays per game. And the pitching staff has the highest WHIP in baseball. Long games with a lot of action by the opponent, no action by the O's except watching a guy trot around the bases. Boring to me

If you'd like to go support another team and leave this message board, no one would miss you.

[ORIOLE33]

38 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

If you'd like to go support another team and leave this message board, no one would miss you.

Why do so many people on this site gets so offensive when others are critical of this team?

I've been an O's fan as long as I can remember. I've said this a couple of years ago. I would gladly give up a few HR's for some contact hitters that can steal bases. And when this team isn't hitting HR's, they're hard to team to watch. 

Should I go and find another team?

 

[LA2]

10 minutes ago, ORIOLE33 said:

Why do so many people on this site gets so offensive when others are critical of this team?

I've been an O's fan as long as I can remember. I've said this a couple of years ago. I would gladly give up a few HR's for some contact hitters that can steal bases. And when this team isn't hitting HR's, they're hard to team to watch. 

Should I go and find another team?

 

No, I hope not!

[Can_of_corn]

13 minutes ago, ORIOLE33 said:

Why do so many people on this site gets so offensive when others are critical of this team?

I've been an O's fan as long as I can remember. I've said this a couple of years ago. I would gladly give up a few HR's for some contact hitters that can steal bases. And when this team isn't hitting HR's, they're hard to team to watch. 

Should I go and find another team?

 

Obviously I have no problem with folks being critical.  I don't like weak arguments.

[thezeroes]

2 hours ago, FlipTheBird said:

And the pitching staff has the highest WHIP in baseball.

2ND Highest WHIP in baseball.  We are better than the the New York Metropolitans.

[Emory Eagle]

This is a bad team because it is below average in literally every facet of the game.