Is Bundy Really An Ace?

[ORIOLE33]

Or is he just the best we have? I think Bundy's good, but that's about it. He just doesn't dominate like a true ace IMO.

I mean, we get two runs and he immediately gives them right back. That's not what aces do.

[tntoriole]

He is the best we have.  Not an ace. Not elite.,

[crissfan172]

Little known fact: every pitcher in the HOF has given up leads in the next half-inning...probably. 

[waroriole]

Just now, crissfan172 said:

Little known fact: every pitcher in the HOF has given up leads in the next half-inning...probably. 

Jim Palmer never gave up a grand slam...

Bundy is a good young pitcher not far removed from TJ surgery. He has ace potential but he's not there now. Either way, he's cost controlled for a while. Probably our second best asset. 

[Nevermore]

16 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

He is the best we have.  Not an ace. Not elite.,

At least not yet. Give him a couple of years and we can revisit this assessment. 

[Frobby]

He's the closest thing we've had to an ace since Bedard.     

[tntoriole]

But he is not Kershaw, Keuchel, Sale, Scherzer,  etc.   Yet.     But neither was Bedard.  I reserve ace for the true top 4 or 5 pitchers in baseball that are holy nightmares for the other team.   A guy can be number 1 on a team and still not be an ace in my book. 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

But he is not Kershaw, Keuchel, Sale, Scherzer,  etc.   Yet.     But neither was Bedard.  I reserve ace for the true top 4 or 5 pitchers in baseball that are holy nightmares for the other team.   A guy can be number 1 on a team and still not be an ace in my book. 

Bedard was an ace in his final season for us.   I believe the team won 15 straight games that he started -- a team that won 69 games all year.   

[tntoriole]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Bedard was an ace in his final season for us.   I believe the team won 15 straight games that he started -- a team that won 69 games all year.   

Bedard was very, very good that one year in 2007 but even that year his WAR was 5.7. not in the same range as the 7 plus Kershaw seasons  or multiple 8 WAR seasons of Verlander or the almost unbelievable 11.7 WAR season of Pedro Martinez who also had two over 9 WAR seasons as did Greg Maddux and Randy Johnson who also had a 10 WAR season and a couple of 9s.  Bedard was really good for us that year but not a true ace.  Mussina had an 8.2 WAR season in 1992 and was a true ace that year and several others.  Palmer had a couple of over 8 WAR seasons as well.  

[O's84]

10 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Bedard was very, very good that one year in 2007 but even that year his WAR was 5.7. not in the same range as the 7 plus Kershaw seasons  or multiple 8 WAR seasons of Verlander or the almost unbelievable 11.7 WAR season of Pedro Martinez who also had two over 9 WAR seasons as did Greg Maddux and Randy Johnson who also had a 10 WAR season and a couple of 9s.  Bedard was really good for us that year but not a true ace.  Mussina had an 8.2 WAR season in 1992 and was a true ace that year and several others.  Palmer had a couple of over 8 WAR seasons as well.  

Wait a second, didn't Bedard get injured during the latter portion of the 2007 season?

[allquixotic]

Bundy is not an ace this year, apparently. He has the potential to grow into one, because he's young and has a lot of upside. Will he ever have an ace year in his career? Quite possibly. It's not looking like 2017, though. 

This year I expect he might have the most IP of any Orioles pitcher, likely the best starter ERA, and maybe in the top 35% of all starters in baseball in ERA. But he won't put up numbers or get results that suggest true (team-independent) "ace-ness" in 2017, unless he's perfect from his next start until his last start of the season.

[waroriole]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

He's the closest thing we've had to an ace since Bedard.     

I agree. Tillman performed better under similar time frames, but the movement and break on Bundy's pitches is sharper than anything from Chris. 

[waroriole]

4 minutes ago, O's84 said:

Wait a second, didn't Bedard get injured during the latter portion of the 2007 season?

Yes. Beaded was cruising for team strikeout records when he got hurt. Truly dominant that year. Just couldn't sustain it

[tntoriole]

4 minutes ago, O's84 said:

Wait a second, didn't Bedard get injured during the latter portion of the 2007 season?

September 9th strained oblique.  Missed 4-5 starts- at best may have had another WAR added- 6.7 tops. 

[O's84]

22 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Bedard was very, very good that one year in 2007 but even that year his WAR was 5.7. not in the same range as the 7 plus Kershaw seasons  or multiple 8 WAR seasons of Verlander or the almost unbelievable 11.7 WAR season of Pedro Martinez who also had two over 9 WAR seasons as did Greg Maddux and Randy Johnson who also had a 10 WAR season and a couple of 9s.  Bedard was really good for us that year but not a true ace.  Mussina had an 8.2 WAR season in 1992 and was a true ace that year and several others.  Palmer had a couple of over 8 WAR seasons as well.  

Your comparing him to HOF.  Bedard was an ace, he was considered one of the top pitchers in the game that year.  You say if he didn't get injured he'd end up with about 6 1/2 WAR.  You know what the WAR of the guy who won the CY Young that year? 6.3 (C.C. Sabathia), 2nd Josh Beckett 6.5 WAR, 3rd John Lackey 6.3 WAR, 4th Roberto Hernandez 6.2 WAR.  Bedard was 5th with 5.7 WAR despite the missed innings due to injury.  There is no question he was an ace.