Is Bundy Really An Ace?

[tntoriole]

10 minutes ago, O's84 said:

Your comparing him to HOF.  Bedard was an ace, he was considered one of the top pitchers in the game that year.  You say if he didn't get injured he'd end up with about 6 1/2 WAR.  You know what the WAR of the guy who won the CY Young that year? 6.3 (C.C. Sabathia), 2nd Josh Beckett 6.5 WAR, 3rd John Lackey 6.3 WAR, 4th Roberto Hernandez 6.2 WAR.  Bedard was 5th with 5.7 WAR despite the missed innings due to injury.  There is no question he was an ace.

An ace in my definition has more than one great year or that year is so dominant as to be extraordinary.   By your definition, Steve Stone was an ace.  But just different definitions of the term. 

[Three Run Homer]

2 hours ago, ORIOLE33 said:

Or is he just the best we have? I think Bundy's good, but that's about it. He just doesn't dominate like a true ace IMO.

I mean, we get two runs and he immediately gives them right back. That's not what aces do.

So then Chris Sale isn't an ace, because he gave up 3 runs right after his team had gotten him a 2-0 lead in the top of the first last Sunday?  

[O's84]

32 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

An ace in my definition has more than one great year or that year is so dominant as to be extraordinary.   By your definition, Steve Stone was an ace.  But just different definitions of the term. 

You could see the progression of his improvement year by year, IMO the injuries robbed him of it's continuation.  And Steve Stone's greatest year happened near the end of his career and was an outlier.

[ORIOLE33]

14 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

So then Chris Sale isn't an ace, because he gave up 3 runs right after his team had gotten him a 2-0 lead in the top of the first last Sunday?  

You gotta try harder than that. I'm sure Kershaw has given up runs after his team got him the lead.

 

[ORIOLE33]

43 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

An ace in my definition has more than one great year or that year is so dominant as to be extraordinary.   By your definition, Steve Stone was an ace.  But just different definitions of the term. 

Exactly. Guys like Sabathia at one time was an ace. Price was an ace. Kershaw and Sale are current aces. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

He's the closest thing we've had to an ace since Bedard.     

I want to see if Bundy can at least have a Tillman like season first.  One thing to remember, Bundy is still learning on the job.  With all the injuries Bundy only pitched 167 innings in the minors. 

Bundy has been good, but the relatively low strikeout totals are a concern. 

[tntoriole]

8 minutes ago, ORIOLE33 said:

Exactly. Guys like Sabathia at one time was an ace. Price was an ace. Kershaw and Sale are current aces. 

An informal definition of an ace is a guy who the other team's hitters go "God, not him again."  We have nobody like that as of the moment. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Just now, tntoriole said:

An informal definition of an ace is a guy who the other team's hitters go "God, not him again."  We have nobody like that as of the moment. 

RIght now that is usually the reaction of O's fans when they see who is starting today's game for the team, or when Buck makes a call to the bullpen. 

[OFFNY]

4 hours ago, ORIOLE33 said:

 

Or is he just the best we have? I think Bundy's good, but that's about it. He just doesn't dominate like a true ace IMO.

I mean, we get two runs and he immediately gives them right back. That's not what aces do.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Three Run Homer said:

 

So then Chris Sale isn't an ace, because he gave up 3 runs right after his team had gotten him a 2-0 lead in the top of the first last Sunday?  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, ORIOLE33 said:

 

You gotta try harder than that. I'm sure Kershaw has given up runs after his team got him the lead.

 

o

 

Yes, he has. But that was YOUR assertion, not his. You stated that Bundy gave 2 runs back immediately after his team scored 2 runs themselves tonight, and you asserted that that is not what aces do. He responded accordingly, as did another poster, by stating that every Hall of Fame pitcher has given at least one lead back immediately after his team scored during their careers.

And I'm not necessarily asserting that Bundy is or is not an ace. I think that it's far too early in his career to make that judgement. But your assertion (and citation of Bundy's game that he pitched tonight)  in your OP about aces not doing that lacks merit. He may or may not be an ace, but the single fact that he coughed up the lead immediately after being given one in tonight's game is not a sound argument that he is not one.

 

o

[Frobby]

10 hours ago, O's84 said:

Wait a second, didn't Bedard get injured during the latter portion of the 2007 season?

Yes, he did.    He was 4th in the league in ERA, 2nd in WHIP, 1st in H/9, 1st in K/9, 3rd in total strikeouts despite not pitching after August 26.    And, as I mentioned, the team won 15 consecutive starts in which he pitched -- the streak ended in the game where Bedard got hurt.    He was leading the league in strikeouts by a fairly wide margin when he got hurt.

If Bedard wasn't an ace that year, then your definition of ace is much stricter than mine.    

[Frobby]

And no, I would not say Bundy has achieved the status of an ace.    He's showing that he may have the potential to be one, though.    

[sportsfan8703]

Even on his bad days he is still giving us quality starts. We pray for QS the other 4 days. I don't know what definition of Ace we are using. But Bundy is out best starter. It's a shame that Gausman has given up 90 hits in 66 IP and Tillman got hurt. This rotation could've been alright. 

[LA2]

31 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Even on his bad days he is still giving us quality starts. We pray for QS the other 4 days. I don't know what definition of Ace we are using. But Bundy is out best starter. It's a shame that Gausman has given up 90 hits in 66 IP and Tillman got hurt. This rotation could've been alright. 

Imagine being a Mets fan this year--their rotation could've been GREAT. BTW when talking about the Met staff's potential in random places like the subway, comparisons with the Orioles' (and Braves') great rotations often come up, even when chatting w youngsters!

[thezeroes]

Seldom does anyone post what the define as an "ACE" in MLB.  Would this article be the determine facet of that definition.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2701747-identifying-the-true-aces-of-major-league-baseball-entering-2017

[NashLumber]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Even on his bad days he is still giving us quality starts. We pray for QS the other 4 days. I don't know what definition of Ace we are using. But Bundy is out best starter. It's a shame that Gausman has given up 90 hits in 66 IP and Tillman got hurt. This rotation could've been alright. 

Agreed. He seems to know now how to make in-game adjustments and still get a quality start when his best stuff isn't at its best.