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Should Palmeiro Be Welcomed Back?


ORIOLE33

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The Palmeiro debacle happened back when baseball was still "reeling" from the steroids revelations, and acting like it had no idea what had been going on. Raffy was made an example of, which sucked and wasn't fair, given the circumstances around the entire situation.

I thought it was polite of the O's to call him last year and ask if he'd be OK with then drafting Preston - who I don't think was just a legacy pick. He went in the 7th round, and has been given a full-time gig at Delmarva. He's not a top-flight prospect by any means, but he wasn't just a favor.

That said, Raffy has distanced himself from not only the O's, but MLB at large, since 2005. Maybe he gets invited to the 25th anniversary of Camden Yards events in August. If he's not here, then... I'd have to assume the only thing that'd ever bring him back is his kid maybe getting a shot one day, which is obviously very TBD.

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Like it or not, Raffygate really hurt this team badly.    The single biggest drop in attendance the team ever experienced was between 2005 and 2006 -- more than 470,000 fans voted with their feet, and the team has never again equaled its 2005 attendance, despite fielding three playoff teams in the last five years.    So even though it may not be totally fair, I think it's hard to envision the Orioles ever bringing Raffy back into the fold.   

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11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Like it or not, Raffygate really hurt this team badly.    The single biggest drop in attendance the team ever experienced was between 2005 and 2006 -- more than 470,000 fans voted with their feet, and the team has never again equaled its 2005 attendance, despite fielding three playoff teams in the last five years.    So even though it may not be totally fair, I think it's hard to envision the Orioles ever bringing Raffy back into the fold.   

The thing to me is the HOF voting. If he gets voted in he will have his day back in Baltimore. If he never makes it in there is no reason for him to be around the club.  

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1 hour ago, Aglets said:

You bought his story about Tejada giving him bad vitamin shots?

I still don't get why he did it. He could have limped his way to 3000 hits. Do I think he was a PED guy, yes of course. I just don't get the risk that he took if he did it knowingly.

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18 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Like it or not, Raffygate really hurt this team badly.    The single biggest drop in attendance the team ever experienced was between 2005 and 2006 -- more than 470,000 fans voted with their feet, and the team has never again equaled its 2005 attendance, despite fielding three playoff teams in the last five years.    So even though it may not be totally fair, I think it's hard to envision the Orioles ever bringing Raffy back into the fold.   

But was it really Raffygate? 2005 also ended with one of the worst stretches in Orioles history (4-32) and kind of cemented their status as the cellar dwellers in the AL East going forward.

Plus 2005 was also the first year the Nats were in DC, and that fanbase has just continued to grow.

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3 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

But was it really Raffygate? 2005 also ended with one of the worst stretches in Orioles history (4-32) and kind of cemented their status as the cellar dwellers in the AL East going forward.

Plus 2005 was also the first year the Nats were in DC, and that fanbase has just continued to grow.

The 4-32 was 2001. It was an ugly season. The team contended and then imploded around the Raffy scandal. Things were ugly. 

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17 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

The 4-32 was 2001. It was an ugly season. The team contended and then imploded around the Raffy scandal. Things were ugly. 

My apologies.

Point being, the team wasn't any good in 2005, either. It fell apart because (wait for it)... there wasn't much of a pitching staff. And Brian Roberts stopped hitting like Babe Ruth. And we were giving at bats to Sammy Sosa.

Rafael Palmeiro did not kill the 2005 Baltimore Orioles or their attendance.

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28 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

But was it really Raffygate? 2005 also ended with one of the worst stretches in Orioles history (4-32) and kind of cemented their status as the cellar dwellers in the AL East going forward.

Plus 2005 was also the first year the Nats were in DC, and that fanbase has just continued to grow.

I would suggest that Raffygate had a lot to do with how the team finished.    By the way, 2001 was the year we finished 4-32.   In 2005 we finished 14-28.

I don't want to suggest that Raffygate was the sole reason for the huge attendance drop from 2005-06, but I think it was a big part.    2005 was the year the Nats arrived, and was the Nats' high water mark for attendance, but we lost only 120,000 fans that year, compared to the 470,000 we lost in 2006.   The Nats lost 580,000 fans themselves in 2006, so there's not much evidence that the 470,000 who didn't show up in Baltimore showed up in DC instead.   

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The day Raffy was suspended was my worst day as an Orioles fan. In hindsight, of course, he was one of many, many users, but he and his advisors were pretty naive about what was happening. Congressional investigators clearly had the results of the "anonymous" tests and knew that Raffy, Big Mac, and Sosa had "anonymously" tested positive and Raffy's finger wagging testimony was a political setup that he happily walked right into. I think it's easier to forgive the use than the self righteousness before and especially after the suspension. Maybe he really thought/thinks he was innocent, but he would have been better off falling on the sword. 

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Palmeiro should be in the Hall of Fame. The only thing that's kept him out is hypocrisy, in my opinion. There is no reason to shun him, regardless of whether or not you believe his story about Tejada's vitamin shots. 

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1 hour ago, Ohfan67 said:

The day Raffy was suspended was my worst day as an Orioles fan. In hindsight, of course, he was one of many, many users, but he and his advisors were pretty naive about what was happening. Congressional investigators clearly had the results of the "anonymous" tests and knew that Raffy, Big Mac, and Sosa had "anonymously" tested positive and Raffy's finger wagging testimony was a political setup that he happily walked right into. I think it's easier to forgive the use than the self righteousness before and especially after the suspension. Maybe he really thought/thinks he was innocent, but he would have been better off falling on the sword

Why fall on the sword if he honestly feels he's innocent?

Why perjure himself when he could have said nothing?

There are maybe 2-3 people that really know what happened with Raffy, and we'll never get the full truth from any of them. But I do know that his case sounds more legitimate than many others.

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3 hours ago, Aglets said:

You bought his story about Tejada giving him bad vitamin shots?

Whenever I need a B-12 shot I never go to a doctor or a clinic.  I always lurk around random locker rooms until I see a guy walking around with a briefcase and buy one off him.  It just seems so much safer that way.  What could possibly go wrong?

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1 hour ago, El Gordo said:

Yes. Makes no sense otherwise.

Makes more sense than what.........lying to avoid getting caught?   Hmmm, do we have any evidence of professional athletes lying?

Did you believe Lance Armstrong too?   A-Rod before he got caught?   Ryan Braun?

Do you believe David Ortiz?  Clemens?

I'm not sure I've seen a single athlete been implicated in something like this............deny it emphatically.........then get completely vindicated.   99% of the time the athletes just lie because they think they're untouchable.

I don't see how you could think anything else unless you had very convincing evidence.   I mean, unless Raffy's your guy.  Then I'm sure he's innocent.

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30 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

Why fall on the sword if he honestly feels he's innocent?

Why perjure himself when he could have said nothing?

There are maybe 2-3 people that really know what happened with Raffy, and we'll never get the full truth from any of them. But I do know that his case sounds more legitimate than many others.

I didn't make it clear; he's guilty as hell and knows it. It's pretty obvious he tested positive twice, once anonymously and once when he was suspended. He seemed such an odd choice for the congressional subpoena, but it's because they already knew he was using steroids. 

 

Anyway, I didn't really mean to vilify  him any more than he has been. He was one of my favorite Orioles and I was incredibly disheartened when he tested positive. But I was more naive about the depth of use, etc., and a lot of time is passed. I would be fine if the Orioles wanted to honor his career. 

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