TT: How bad are the Orioles?

[Tx Oriole]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

By whom?

The fans? - Sure the informed ones

Ownership? - As far as we know they were onboard with his process.

Media? - When does the local media hold anyone accountable?  I expect to see something from Fangraphs and the National media.

 

6 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

Let's hope they realize the opportunity to move any and all players that could be dealt to improve this moribund system.   

 

I hope so.

[FlipTheBird]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I think we are going to hear how some players had down years and how injuries hurt the team and how they have confidence in the core going forward.

That is assuming of course that at some point the bleeding stops and they settle in as an ordinary, not very good team.

Well, the thing is, this is true in more than a few cases on the roster. Unless you think Manny Machado is a .218 hitter and Chris Tillman is a 9 ERA pitcher and Kevin Gausman is a 6.5 ERA pitcher and Zach Britton is going to be hurt forever.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, FlipTheBird said:

Well, the thing is, this is true in more than a few cases on the roster. Unless you think Manny Machado is a .218 hitter and Chris Tillman is a 9 ERA pitcher and Kevin Gausman is a 6.5 ERA pitcher and Zach Britton is going to be hurt forever.

But can you take this core, add a year to everyone's age, and expect them to compete next year?

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

Well, FanGraphs will probably just run a story with "We Are the Champions" embedded for finally getting it right, after the O's upset their projections 5 years running.

Speaking of Fangraphs:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-orioles-rotation-is-terrible/

I don't detect any gloating.

[Finisher]

We basically need an entire new rotation after Bundy. Good luck with that.

[FlipTheBird]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

But can you take this core, add a year to everyone's age, and expect them to compete next year?

Maybe, maybe not. But I have a sneaking suspicion that's what the organization is going to do.

I just wanted to point out that there are some guys having crazy down years, some guys that are hurt and so on. It's not as if the entire roster just up and forgot how to play baseball and this is how they're going to be for the remainder of their careers.

Blaming everything on injuries and guys just not being able to get on track would be unfair, yes. But disregarding some of the quirks the team has dealt with this year would be unfair, too.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

Maybe, maybe not. But I have a sneaking suspicion that's what the organization is going to do.

I just wanted to point out that there are some guys having crazy down years, some guys that are hurt and so on. It's not as if the entire roster just up and forgot how to play baseball and this is how they're going to be for the remainder of their careers.

Blaming everything on injuries and guys just not being able to get on track would be unfair, yes. But disregarding some of the quirks the team has dealt with this year would be unfair, too.

I fully expect it to be what they do.

And it will hurt future rebuilding efforts even more.

[Tony-OH]

30 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

A lot of quality?  Two years?  Care to share?

I don't see a lot of quality unless folks like Schoop, Gausman and Bundy are on the block. 

I don't see how two years is feasible if folks like Schoop, Gausman and Bundy are on the block.

Why would anyone not be on the block? Bundy would be the only guy I would come close to saying he's untradeable because we have so much more controllable time with him that it would be dumb to trade him. Macahdo, schoop and Gausman should all be on the block for the right price. No need for a fire sale, but if we can retool the organization with nearly ready or ready top level talent they should do so with whatever personnel they need to move.

[Going Underground]

30 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think we are going to hear how some players had down years and how injuries hurt the team and how they have confidence in the core going forward.

That is assuming of course that at some point the bleeding stops and they settle in as an ordinary, not very good team.

Wright and Sedlock for Parra Get her done.Parra seems to do pretty good until he puts on a Orioles uniform.Nice year so far but the late season fade.

[FlipTheBird]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Why would anyone not be on the block? Bundy would be the only guy I would come close to saying he's untradeable because we have so much more controllable time with him that it would be dumb to trade him. Macahdo, schoop and Gausman should all be on the block for the right price. No need for a fire sale, but if we can retool the organization with nearly ready or ready top level talent they should do so with whatever personnel they need to move.

Well of course anyone's on the block at any time. It's really a matter of who's on the block but also likely to be traded.

Gausman, I'd say no, because he's such a mess right now the return probably wouldn't be worth it.

Schoop I'd list as unlikely because there's not necessarily a pressing need to move because he's still under control through 2019... Which doesn't mean you don't trade him in a rebuild, it just means you don't have to trade him right away in a rebuild.

[Tony-OH]

48 minutes ago, Dr. Unk said:

Now will Duquette be held accountable for the lack of farm talent?

Well, does he get credit for the team being in the playoffs in three years out of six years as well? I don't think Duquette was perfect by any means, but this organization was coming off 14 straight losing seasons and he's put together teams that have been competitive almost every year. Do I think the window passed with this set of players and did he make some poor moves that have now left the team and organization pretty bare, yep. 

In other words, he was successful in making the Orioles relevant again but it cost them to do so. His teams were never constructed to withstand major injuries or unforeseen poor performance by key players, but then again few teams are nowadays unless you've created a deep and productive farm system, something he was not able to do.

My only question is, does Duquette want to be the guy to help rebuild this team and will Angelos let him do so? If no him, is Brady the heir apparent? Is Buck? 

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Why would anyone not be on the block? Bundy would be the only guy I would come close to saying he's untradeable because we have so much more controllable time with him that it would be dumb to trade him. Macahdo, schoop and Gausman should all be on the block for the right price. No need for a fire sale, but if we can retool the organization with nearly ready or ready top level talent they should do so with whatever personnel they need to move.

I didn't say that I wouldn't trade them Tony.  I said that if you did trade folks like Schoop it would be harder to make a two year turnaround.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

Wright and Sedlock for Parra Get her done.Parra seems to do pretty good until he puts on a Orioles uniform.Nice year so far but the late season fade.

Would be more of a Norris or Miley style move.  Someone that could help in 2018.

[FlipTheBird]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Well, does he get credit for the team being in the playoffs in three years out of six years as well? I don't think Duquette was perfect by any means, but this organization was coming off 14 straight losing seasons and he's put together teams that have been competitive almost every year. Do I think the window passed with this set of players and did he make some poor moves that have now left the team and organization pretty bare, yep. 

In other words, he was successful in making the Orioles relevant again but it cost them to do so. His teams were never constructed to withstand major injuries or unforeseen poor performance by key players, but then again few teams are nowadays unless you've created a deep and productive farm system, something he was not able to do.

My only question is, does Duquette want to be the guy to help rebuild this team and will Angelos let him do so? If no him, is Brady the heir apparent? Is Buck? 

Too many of the folks on this message board like to forget this part, and instead act like DD is the worst thing to have ever happened to the Orioles. I'm guessing some of them are simply too young to remember much about the late 90s/early 2000s.

[sportsfan8703]

Cant win with those SP numbers.  I don't care how good the bullpen and offense are.  

Manny has been a black hole batting 3rd.  He's came up real small in RBI opportunities.  

The theory with the pitching staff has always been to get to the back end of the A squad relievers.  Well now we can't even get to them for them to make an impact.  We need to sell the relievers some SP.