TT: How bad are the Orioles?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, eddie83 said:

They aren't good deals on non contending teams but are hardly back breaking. 

Didn't say they were back breaking.

They are the types of deal you don't want to be saddled with when rebuilding.

[Yossarian]

8 hours ago, birdwatcher55 said:

I"m of the opinion a rebuild would only take 2 years with the right moves by management. We have a lot of quality to offer up at deadline. The question is who will be that management?

There is no way this team re-builds in two years  -- five years, minimum.  I guess it depends on what they are "re-building" too?  Is the goal to "re-build" to the team that plays in the "play-in" game for the second wild card spot?  Or is it the goal to become a legitimate AL Champion contender?

[Uli2001]

6 hours ago, interloper said:

Chen got too expensive/injured.

Tillman got injured.

Gonzo got bad.

Norris got bad.

Thanks, it was a half-rhetorical question (I didn't remember Chen's injuries). I understand jettisoning these pitchers to get better ones, but replacing them with Miley, Acher, et al? They could use Gonzalez just about now.

[interloper]

13 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

Thanks, it was a half-rhetorical question (I didn't remember Chen's injuries). I understand jettisoning these pitchers to get better ones, but replacing them with Miley, Acher, et al? They could use Gonzalez just about now.

Sure, they could use Norris too. At the time those moves were justified, and early on our rotation looked good this year. It is what it is. At the end of the day, all these guys save Bundy are questionable pieces to any rotation.

[Babypowder]

23 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

They have the full Phillies package going on.

1. Limited trade value on current roster
2. Weak farm system with a lack of impact players
3. Unmovable contracts tying up payroll

To be fair, no one could have seen it coming.

[webbrick2010]

14 minutes ago, Babypowder said:

To be fair, no one could have seen it coming.

Huh? A lot of people saw it coming... I have called out DD on just about every July trade and offseason signing he has made. I'm just surprised that the Andy McPhail core held it together for so long. The core got old and instead of trading off pieces like O'day, and CD and getting a pick for Hardy he signed them all to disastrous contracts.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Huh? A lot of people saw it coming... I have called out DD on just about every July trade and offseason signing he has made. I'm just surprised that the Andy McPhail core held it together for so long. The core got old and instead of trading off pieces like O'day, and CD and getting a pick for Hardy he signed them all to disastrous contracts.

He was being sarcastic.  He knows I have been using the Philies as an example of what was going to happen for a few years now.

[webbrick2010]

So I was thinking... was the O's starting OF of Kim in left, Jones in Center, and Trumbo in RF the worst that has ever been fielded in O's history? Gotta be in the running

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

So I was thinking... was the O's starting OF of Kim in left, Jones in Center, and Trumbo in RF the worst that has ever been fielded in O's history? Gotta be in the running

1987- Sheets in left, Mike Young in center (3 GS) and a 39 year old Lee Lacy in right.

Was there a Kim/Reimold/Trumbo outfield last year?

[webbrick2010]

31 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

1987- Sheets in left, Mike Young in center (3 GS) and a 39 year old Lee Lacy in right.

Was there a Kim/Reimold/Trumbo outfield last year?

Wow great research... I remember 87 being a tough year... of course 88 was worse

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Wow great research... I remember 87 being a tough year... of course 88 was worse

I wouldn't call it research so much.  I knew the team had Sheets, Lacy and Lynn.  I remembered that Lacy was old and Lynn was often hurt.  So I just checked BB-Ref to see who played CF when Lynn was hurt.

[Going Underground]

15 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

Thanks, it was a half-rhetorical question (I didn't remember Chen's injuries). I understand jettisoning these pitchers to get better ones, but replacing them with Miley, Acher, et al? They could use Gonzalez just about now.

Gonzo has been horrible this year except the first month. May 5.40 ERA. June at 10.34.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

1987- Sheets in left, Mike Young in center (3 GS) and a 39 year old Lee Lacy in right.

Was there a Kim/Reimold/Trumbo outfield last year?

Found one worse.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BAL/BAL198806270.shtml

1988, Pete Stanicek in LF, Ken Gerhart in CF, Larry sheets in RF

I was looking for the ultimate of Jeff Stone in LF with Gerhart and Sheets but i could not find that game. Sheets was Trumbo-esque, Gerhart was brutal no matter where he played, and Stanicek was a 2B convert.

[osfan83]

18 hours ago, Yossarian said:

There is no way this team re-builds in two years  -- five years, minimum.  I guess it depends on what they are "re-building" too?  Is the goal to "re-build" to the team that plays in the "play-in" game for the second wild card spot?  Or is it the goal to become a legitimate AL Champion contender?

Both are pretty much the same. The Cubs built into a WS Champion last year, this year they might be a WC team.

[Barnfather]

Surely we all know the team are better than the results they are delivering at the moment?

If that is the case (it is) then the question is whether the slump is due to a specific root cause (ie. something unsettling the side), or if it is just an insanely unlucky situation where everyone is out of form simultaneously.

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater seems extreme, especially as there doesn't appear to be much in the way of stellar youth coming up through the farm system.

Whilst any immediate clubhouse issue is firmly in Buck's court, and I do believe they will turn things around, some focus surely has to be directed towards the GM in terms of making sure there are effective options coming through on the production line? Perhaps this is the season we need a change at the top, rather than the undoubtedly talented - and expensive - players. 

Once that is sorted, then look at the rest.