The Orioles Failed Prospect Team

[Tony-OH]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I have trouble putting Fontenot on the list, because of the 50+ guys drafted at no. 19, his 4.5 rWAR ranks 14th.

I'll always feel that Loewen's failure was strictly injury-related.    That kid had talent.    

Honestly, I just couldn't find a second baseman that failed. I guess I could have gone Manny Alexander, but he was a shortstop really. I agree Fontenot really wasn't a terrible pick/prospect because he did have a decent little major league career, but there are just weren't many to chose from. Who would you say the 2B should be?

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Honestly, I just couldn't find a second baseman that failed. I guess I could have gone Manny Alexander, but he was a shortstop really. I agree Fontenot really wasn't a terrible pick/prospect because he did have a decent little major league career, but there are just weren't many to chose from. Who would you say the 2B should be?

How about Ryan Adams?   He was a second rounder (no. 58 overall) who couldn't field.    And not only did he fail at baseball, he got in serious legal trouble.    https://www.google.com/amp/www.nola.com/articles/16592543/former_jesuit_mlb_infielder_ry.amp

[Cumberbundy]

On June 28, 2017 at 2:14 PM, Elbren said:

Jimmy Haynes pitched in the ML's for almost a decade.  While he certainly didn't reach his potential (he was mediocre, at best), he definitely had a better career than all of the guys you listed.

Incorrect. 

[Cumberbundy]

On June 28, 2017 at 3:06 PM, murph said:

I had forgotten Riley even made it the majors and had to go look at what he did and he did something that has to be somewhat unique, I would think.  He has a career 0.0 War.  He managed 0.6 war in his strong 10 innings in 2003, but his stint with Texas in 2005 cancelled that out and 99 and 2004 cancel each other out.  

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rileyma01.shtml

I was really excited when he came up. He had some pretty significant hype for a bit.

[Cumberbundy]

On June 24, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Enjoy Terror said:

Why would Mychal Givens be on there?

Nick Delmonico is 24 in AAA with an .800 OPS. I think he's on a short list for a promotion soon.

Givens was a top 10 prospect in 2019 &2011, the again as a pitcher in 2016 he came in as a top 5 prospect on mlb. 

[Cumberbundy]

On June 24, 2017 at 11:55 AM, allquixotic said:

A team's success or failure is largely dictated by their farm system and the ability to take top talent and make them viable ML players that can contend at a high level. Just a few massively successful prospects coming out of every year, or even every other year, can turn a team around instantly. Just look at Aaron Judge or Mike Trout. We've had non-losing records in the years Manny has been with us largely because of his success. 

I guess the difference is that teams like the Dodgers can insulate themselves against a horrible prospect year by purchasing successful ML veterans from other teams. We can't and never will, unless Baltimore grows economically at a much faster rate than LA and catches up to the point where our owner can put that kind of money down while still making a profit. Then we could sign Manny, Schoop and Bundy to long-term contracts, buy replacement-level pitchers to replace our failed starters, DFA Ubaldo, DFA Hardy and Davis and just buy good players that are better and less injury-prone to replace them.

But the dodgers do have incredible youth, they're in a great position. With a momma from Brooklyn, there is a lot of dodger hate in the family. They're fun to watch though, they've probably got as much young talent as anyone.

[Cumberbundy]

On June 28, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Tony-OH said:

In my mind, a failed prospect can't have any kind of major league career. Just playing a few years is quite an accomplishment so I would have a different list. Here's my failed prospect list:

C: Brandon Snyder - Yes, I know he now has 120 games in the major leagues, but as the 13th overall pick who was drafted over Jacoby Ellsbury he has failed
1B: Calvin Pickering - For a 35th selection he was great pick, but struggled in the major leagues despite being a top MLB prospect at one point.
2B: Mike Fontenot - Actually had a decent major league career with the Cubs, but as the 19th overall pick, he was selected over David Wright later in the round.
SS: Bryan Bass - 1st round sandwich selection that never got out AA
3B: Billy Rowell - Not only bombed, but was selected over Tim Lincecum
OF: Mark Smith - 9th overall selection ended up getting 1081 ML PAs, but mostly as a pinch hitter, 4/5 OF. Manny Ramirez was drafted 4 picks later.
OF: Drungo Hazewood - 19th overall selection got a cup of coffee and never a hit.
OF: Keith Reed - 23rd overall pick barely got a cup of coffee despite some good tools
DH: Rick Elder - Big 1st round pick cold hit a ball a country miles, but injuries and curveballs did him in eventually.
UTL: Ed Rogers - Aged three years one off season and his prospect status disappeared. Never quite made it to "The Next A-Rod" status.

P: Matt Hobgood - 5th overall pick was a disaster a pro
P: Garrett Olson - Was never able to pitch with a major league baseball. His curve left him in the majors.
P: Wade Townsend - Never signed as the 8th overall pick and eventually bombed in the Rays system. This was the draft that DeMacio reportedly was told to draft a college pitcher. Jered Weaver picked four picks later would have been a better choice.
P: Adam Loewen - 4th overall pick was selected over Zack Greinke (6) and Prince Fielder (8) not to mention Scott Kazmir (15), Nick Swisher (16) and Cole Hamels (17)
P: Chris Smith - Who can forget this 7th overall pick being hurt upon arrival? May be the worse pick in Orioles history.
P: Beau Hale - Succumbed to injuries an never made out of AA despite being 14th overall selection (Chase Utley was next pick)
P: Mike Paradis - 14th overall selection was never very good
P: Matt Riley - Probably the biggest developmental screw up in Orioles history. The talent was there but mismanagement led to injury and almost no big league career.
P: Alvie Shepherd - Imagine drafting a college pitcher with 5.71 ERA with 21st overall pick. Not surprising he bombed in the minors.
P: Chris Myers - 1987 7th overall pick washed out of organized minor league ball by age 23. Kevin Appier was selected tow picks later.
 

How about Percibal and Erbe?

[Ohfan67]

9 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

Incorrect. 

I think you are both kind of correct about Haines. He wasn't mediocre, he was terrible! A career ERA+ of 83 and only two seasons where he was barely over 100. Yet he was a 7th round draft pick who somehow pitched over a 1000 innings and appeared in over 200 games in the bigs. And made over 9 million dollars. And he was a righty! I never understood how he hung around so long and certainly Cincinnati were idiots for giving him so much money. i think Haines is a good example of how messed up baseball decision makers can be sometimes. 

[Cumberbundy]

Just now, Ohfan67 said:

I think you are both kind of correct about Haines. He wasn't mediocre, he was terrible! A career ERA+ of 83 and only two seasons where he was barely over 100. Yet he was a 7th round draft pick who somehow pitched over a 1000 innings and appeared in over 200 games in the bigs. And made over 9 million dollars. And he was a righty! I never understood how he hung around so long and certainly Cincinnati were idiots for giving him so much money. i think Haines is a good example of how messed up baseball decision makers can be sometimes. 

I just said he's incorrect because I listed him. I don't understand why elbren appeared bothered by a guy not being on a list that he was actually on, but you get some of that here. I was simply building on the original list and naming everyone from the Orioles system who had been ranked as a preseason top 100 player by mlb. I put them all in the thread. Figured that would be interesting, as someone asked who was considered a top 100 mlb prospect from the original list. 

 

[Cumberbundy]

This is a great link to check out how the system looked heading into each year.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/prospects/byTeam.asp?T=4#1995

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

This is a great link to check out how the system looked heading into each year.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/prospects/byTeam.asp?T=4#1995

Great find!   Rep to you!

[POR]

1 hour ago, Cumberbundy said:

Givens was a top 10 prospect in 2019 &2011, the again as a pitcher in 2016 he came in as a top 5 prospect on mlb. 

The point is Givens became a decent major league baseball player.  He has no business in this discussion. 

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, POR said:

The point is Givens became a decent major league baseball player.  He has no business in this discussion. 

I don't care one way or the other, but it's certainly true that he was a failed prospect as a 2B/SS.     Fortunately the team had a contingency plan for him that worked out swimmingly.    That pretty much salvaged our 2009 draft, which otherwise was dismal.   (Only Givens and Tolliver reached the majors, and Tolliver's rocking a  9.00 ERA and a WHIP over 2.00 in Fresno.)

[glenn__davis]

Yeah, we've had the Givens discussion before.  If anything I almost think he should count as a double-bust, because we obviously mis-identified what his best prospects were.  I don't believe he ever even made it out of A-ball as a hitter.  The fact that he was talented enough to turn into a good bullpen piece was more just a case of good fortune, even if it was a potential back-up plan for him all along.

[Why Not?]

On 6/28/2017 at 3:08 PM, Tony-OH said:

Honestly, I just couldn't find a second baseman that failed. I guess I could have gone Manny Alexander, but he was a shortstop really. I agree Fontenot really wasn't a terrible pick/prospect because he did have a decent little major league career, but there are just weren't many to chose from. Who would you say the 2B should be?

Bob Bonner? Pete Stanicek? Neither had the first-round pedigree that Fontenot did. 

I remember thinking that Stanicek was going to be our Vince Coleman