Jump to content

Orioles' First-Half Recap: Five Things That Went Wrong

PressBoxOnline

By PressBoxOnline
in Orioles Talk

Recommended Posts

Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, PressBoxOnline said:

While it's easy to point to starting pitching, Rich Dubroff takes a look at five things that went wrong for the Baltimore Orioles during the season's first half.

https://www.pressboxonline.com/2017/07/10/orioles-first-half-recap-five-things-that-went-wrong
 

You have plenty more to look at than just batting average to be unimpressed with Hardy's 2017 performance.

Davis was rather unimpressive as well when he was playing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
spiritof66 Hangout Grand Counsel

spiritof66

Posted
Posted

I do think the team has missed Hardy. While I've certainly been critical of his declining offense, and at times amazed by Buck's refusal to PH for him, I do think he's a stabilizing influence out there. I'm not big on the contribution of intangibles to winning games, but it was my experience in team sports that there were certain guys whose presence on the field/court made you more confident, and inspired you to work harder and not do anything stupid. I think Hardy and Jones have been the Orioles' guys like that.

And other than Janish's defense and being more frequently pinch hit for, the guys who have filled in have pretty awful, although Tejada has been a more productive hitter lately.. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I do think the team has missed Hardy. While I've certainly been critical of his declining offense, and at times amazed by Buck's refusal to PH for him, I do think he's a stabilizing influence out there. I'm not big on the contribution of intangibles to winning games, but it was my experience in team sports that there were certain guys whose presence on the field/court made you more confident, and inspired you to work harder and not do anything stupid. I think Hardy and Jones have been the Orioles' guys like that.

And other than Janish's defense and being more frequently pinch hit for, the guys who have filled in have pretty awful, although Tejada has been a more productive hitter lately.. 

They have problems if a guy in his 10th year, a guy in his sixth year and a guy in his fifth year need a stabilizing influence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

Top 5 in order:

1. Gausman huge regression

2. Ubaldo worse than normal (which is bad)

3. Tillman pitching injured and ineffective

4. Miley regression like woah

5. Britton injury

I'd put Jones, Davis, Trumbo and Machado under-performing ahead of Britton.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sanfran327 Hangout Grand Counsel

Sanfran327

Posted
Posted

This season really took a turn after the Friday night game in NY when we blew an enormous lead and our bullpen, which had still been very good even without Britton, really let us down. It started happening more routinely after that, because the starters were burning out the bullpen arms even earlier in the season than normal. Gausman, Miley, Tillman, and Jimenez really gutted them. 

I still see a major run in this team, but if it doesn't happen soon, it won't matter. Plenty of teams go from bubble to contender in July and August. This could be one of those teams - the talent is there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LookitsPuck Hangout Grand Counsel

LookitsPuck

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd put Jones, Davis, Trumbo and Machado under-performing ahead of Britton.

 

I was really just going with single names. Not having Britton for essentially 2 months and then showing the clear lack of impact relief depth in the organization as well as putting more usage on top 3 (Givens, Brach, O'Day) really screwed the pooch on quite a few games. It'd be different if they had any meaningful depth...but look at the sheer number of moves this year relative to last year. It was almost entirely because nobody really stepped up. 

That said, I don't think the guys you mentioned (aside from Machado) have underperformed too off the mark of their last 3 years. Unless you're expecting Trumbo to repeat an obvious outlier/career year. It seems that Jones, Trumbo and Davis are all within 30-50 points of their last 3 years. 

Machado is the biggest problem offensively. A 100 drop in OPS is pretty damn large...and his defense has taken a hit this year, too. So I could see an argument to swap Machado w/ Britton. But the other 3 I'm not too perturbed at considering their age and last 3 years.

  • Jones 2017: .267/.305/.436 - .741 OPS
  • Jones Last 3: .272/.310/.459 - .769 OPS
  • Trumbo 2017: .254/.316/.422 - .738 OPS
  • Trumbo Last 3: .253/.309/.477 - .786 OPS
  • Davis 2017: .226/.320/.461 - .781 OPS
  • Davis Last 3: .228/.334/.481 - .814 OPS
  • Machado 2017: .230/.296/.445 - .741 OPS 
  • Machado Last 3: .288/.346/.500 - .846 OPS
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

 

I was really just going with single names. Not having Britton for essentially 2 months and then showing the clear lack of impact relief depth in the organization as well as putting more usage on top 3 (Givens, Brach, O'Day) really screwed the pooch on quite a few games. It'd be different if they had any meaningful depth...but look at the sheer number of moves this year relative to last year. It was almost entirely because nobody really stepped up. 

That said, I don't think the guys you mentioned (aside from Machado) have underperformed too off the mark of their last 3 years. Unless you're expecting Trumbo to repeat an obvious outlier/career year. It seems that Jones, Trumbo and Davis are all within 30-50 points of their last 3 years. 

Machado is the biggest problem offensively. A 100 drop in OPS is pretty damn large...and his defense has taken a hit this year, too. So I could see an argument to swap Machado w/ Britton. But the other 3 I'm not too perturbed at considering their age and last 3 years.

  • Jones 2017: .267/.305/.436 - .741 OPS
  • Jones Last 3: .272/.310/.459 - .769 OPS
  • Trumbo 2017: .254/.316/.422 - .738 OPS
  • Trumbo Last 3: .253/.309/.477 - .786 OPS
  • Davis 2017: .226/.320/.461 - .781 OPS
  • Davis Last 3: .228/.334/.481 - .814 OPS
  • Machado 2017: .230/.296/.445 - .741 OPS 
  • Machado Last 3: .288/.346/.500 - .846 OPS

I think that if Britton is out and O'Day is healthy the overall impact isn't that significant.  The impact of Britton's injury has been magnified by O'Day's issues.  You should be able to go into games with a healthy Brach, O'Day and Givens and feel pretty good about things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
OsFanSinceThe80s Hangout Grand Counsel

OsFanSinceThe80s

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that if Britton is out and O'Day is healthy the overall impact isn't that significant.  The impact of Britton's injury has been magnified by O'Day's issues.  You should be able to go into games with a healthy Brach, O'Day and Givens and feel pretty good about things.

You would if you had a rotation that could go 6 innings regularly.  It's bad when you feel good that an Orioles starter made it through 5 full innings.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that if Britton is out and O'Day is healthy the overall impact isn't that significant.  The impact of Britton's injury has been magnified by O'Day's issues.  You should be able to go into games with a healthy Brach, O'Day and Givens and feel pretty good about things.

Probably fair.    Meanwhile, the bullpen has been reasonably effective, as evidenced by its 17-10 record, +2.86 WPA (7th in MLB), and 71% save percentage (tied for 4th in the AL).     That compares to last year's 32-15, 10.22 WPA (1st in MLB) and 79% save percentage (1st in AL).    So, a lesser performance to be sure, but still well above average.    

Link to comment
Share on other sites
spiritof66 Hangout Grand Counsel

spiritof66

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

They have problems if a guy in his 10th year, a guy in his sixth year and a guy in his fifth year need a stabilizing influence.

Maybe so. But Manny and Jonathan aren't exactly veterans, and you left out Mancini.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

Posted
Posted
Just now, spiritof66 said:

Maybe do. But Manny and Jonathan aren't exactly veterans, and you left out Mancini.

I also left out the backup middle infielders.  How many games have the O's had Hardy at SS and Mancini at first?  Can't miss what you never had.

I went with the established starters at each position.

In my accounting anyone that has reached arbitration counts as a vet. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing


  • Posts

    • Hank Scorpio
      Where are the pollyannas?

      By Hank Scorpio · Posted

      I too was *this* pissed off yesterday. I'm sympathetic. But the reality of the situation is that Kansas City played out of their minds defensively and baseball happened.  Now, this was a microcosm of the second half of the season and that's just a fact. They dealt with injuries, just like every team does... they just didn't deal with them very effectively. I'm not sure if casting blame upon the hitting coaches or Hyde really holds any water for me. But I understand the desire for a scapegoat. It was REALLY hard to watch batter after batter trying to hit a 13 run home run on pitches that weren't really all that close to the strike zone. They were way out of their lanes and it was patently obvious that panic was setting in. I felt like it was a basketball game and Hyde needed to call a timeout or something. Like they needed to be snapped out of it or something, maybe by something drastic like, oh, putting Jackson Holliday in there for an at bat in an important spot.  They hit a lot of balls at guys, they swung at bunch of BS repeatedly. I saw it from Mountcastle, Santander, Henderson, Cowser (embarrassingly so), McCann during game 1, Rutschman too.  The only thing I could maybe blame Hyde for is not successfully alleviating the panic. Baseball's different though... I'm just a slapdick fan, I have no idea what the realities of his job are. But that lineup needed to find a way to relax and the further the game went the more they freaked out. It was the opposite of a loose dugout. It was fear, panic and foreboding doom. Is it even possible to snap that group out of it? I dunno. The veterans were the ones (other than Mullins) that were pressing the most. I think I would have found a way to get Holliday or Kjerstad some meaningful at bats. Yeah, maybe that's Monday morning quarterbacking. Maybe they would have reacted the same way the rest of them did.  They couldn't have been worse...  
    • Grt 2BA FL Gator
      Wait Till Next Year

      By Grt 2BA FL Gator · Posted

      Ok I’m changing this a little. Don’t know O’Hearn is worth the 8 mil.. Maybe we can replace. I’m actually pretty juiced at the potential of this and all of these guys are overdue for regular ABs together.    CF Mullins 3B Westburg C Adley SS Gunnar LF Cowser DH O’hearn/Mayo 1B Mountcastle  RF Kjerstad 2B Holliday Util: Mayo (regular DH platoon, spot starts in the field, Mateo (speed/defense)  
    • baltfan
      Orioles Cannot be Complacent -- Look at History

      By baltfan · Posted

      Honestly, they need to fix the right field wall too.  It is too ridiculous and screws with the right-handed hitters.  Move it in 10 feet and lower it a bit.
    • LookitsPuck
      The Royals

      By LookitsPuck · Posted

      I said it before, and I'll say it again. This Royals team is entirely a function of their starting pitching (Ragans, Lugo, Wacha, Singer) and their recent BP arm pickups/conversions (Erceg, Bubic, Lynch, etc.). Their offense is basically Witt, Pasq, and Perez. I was pretty confident that the O's could shut them down going into this series, and they did. They only scored 3 runs. And none of their run scoring hits were all that amazing...if at all. The issue, of course, was the offense. Was that because of the pitching? Personally I thought Ragans looked hittable. He pitched better than Lugo, but the O's came up tiny in RISP situations. Same as yesterday. Ragans and Lugo mostly pitched out of the zone, and the O's just were aggressive. So, in this regard, give the credit to the Royals scouts and analytics teams. They knew exactly how to pitch to Santander: up, up, up. They knew exactly how to pitch to Cowser: low changeups. They knew exactly how to pitch to everybody not named Cedric Mullins. This Royals club is half decent, and if this O's club was the 2023 team, they shellack them. Alas, here we are. Think the Yankees are going to railroad these guys if they aren't rusty. 
    • Can_of_corn
      Colton Cowser 2024

      By Can_of_corn · Posted

      He was developed according to the Orioles'  development plan.
    • Moose Milligan
      Ryan Mountcastle 2024

      By Moose Milligan · Posted

      Ryan Mountcastle avoiding getting hit in his dick with a pitch while trying to hold up his swing was infuriating.  
    • Sports Guy
      Orioles Cannot be Complacent -- Look at History

      By Sports Guy · Posted

      For the most part, no. The biggest thing a manager does is the culture they set and what they do off the field.  By all accounts, the players like Hyde, the culture is good and the team is happy with him. Now, if there is something there that we don’t know about, by all means make the change. However,  if every report is true, I see no reason to make a change. That’s making a change just to make a change. I would rather focus on the on field than assume some ceremonial change at manager is going to matter. Its been studied and we have talked about it a lot but in game strategy is so similar that its really only a game or two in terms of “manager WAR”.  

  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...