Should the O's sign Manny, Schoop, both, or neither?

[OriolesMagic83]

If Manny and Schoop would sign for below market deals everyone would want to sign both.  The O's have delayed signing them for so long that both are going to require huge deals, especially Manny.  My estimate is that signing Manny will take at least 10 years/$300 mill and signing Schoop will take at least 8 years/$150 mill.  The O's could be paying Davis, Manny, and Schoop close to $80 mill/year by 2021.  The O's would have to sign 22 more players for around the same amount.  I think the O's have to sign one of these players and trade the other one.  Trading Manny or Schoop will not only cut our payroll, but give the O's an influx of young, cheap players.  I just can't see how the O's can sign Manny, Schoop, and improve the starting pitching they will need to be a team that can advance in the playoffs.

Manny has been superior to Schoop so far, but Schoop has put up over 5 WAR this year, and I think he will continue to improve at an All-Star level.  When healthy, Manny is an All-Star and will be a MVP contender multiple times.

Thoughts?

 

 

[Aristotelian]

Manny will not sign with the O's. It will not happen. The choice is to go all in and go for it in 2018, or trade him now.

[Luke-OH]

35 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Manny will not sign with the O's. It will not happen. The choice is to go all in and go for it in 2018, or trade him now.

I agree to some extent, but what does going all in and going for it in 2018 look like?  How many future seasons would you be willing to sacrifice to go for it in 2018?

[rudyrooster]

What big, long-term contract has ever worked out for the Orioles in recent memory (Adam Jones perhaps)?  I will be shocked if the O's sign Manny for the money he wants.  Schoop they could maybe sign to a 5/100mm deal which seems reasonable to me.  Best bet probably for this organization is to trade both for some young, cheap prospects.  Just my thoughts...

[scOtt]

PA should sign both. The sooner the better. He spent the money on CD and Trumbo. In for a penny in for a pound.

[scOtt]

2 hours ago, rudyrooster said:

What big, long-term contract has ever worked out for the Orioles in recent memory (Adam Jones perhaps)?  I will be shocked if the O's sign Manny for the money he wants.  Schoop they could maybe sign to a 5/100mm deal which seems reasonable to me.  Best bet probably for this organization is to trade both for some young, cheap prospects.  Just my thoughts...

Jon and Manny are both 25.

[scOtt]

3 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Manny will not sign with the O's. It will not happen. The choice is to go all in and go for it in 2018, or trade him now.

I think Manny would LOVE to stay here. But he's not going to give up any money.

[wildcard]

8 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

If Manny and Schoop would sign for below market deals everyone would want to sign both.  The O's have delayed signing them for so long that both are going to require huge deals, especially Manny.  My estimate is that signing Manny will take at least 10 years/$300 mill and signing Schoop will take at least 8 years/$150 mill.  The O's could be paying Davis, Manny, and Schoop close to $80 mill/year by 2021.  The O's would have to sign 22 more players for around the same amount.  I think the O's have to sign one of these players and trade the other one.  Trading Manny or Schoop will not only cut our payroll, but give the O's an influx of young, cheap players.  I just can't see how the O's can sign Manny, Schoop, and improve the starting pitching they will need to be a team that can advance in the playoffs.

Manny has been superior to Schoop so far, but Schoop has put up over 5 WAR this year, and I think he will continue to improve at an All-Star level.  When healthy, Manny is an All-Star and will be a MVP contender multiple times.

Thoughts?

 

 

If the O's sign all three, Manny, Schoop and Davis probably will be paid closer to 60m per year when the deferred money is taken into account.

[Tx Oriole]

10 hours ago, phillyOs119 said:

I agree to some extent, but what does going all in and going for it in 2018 look like?  How many future seasons would you be willing to sacrifice to go for it in 2018?

That's a good question which is hard for me to answer. 

[Aristotelian]

12 hours ago, phillyOs119 said:

I agree to some extent, but what does going all in and going for it in 2018 look like?  How many future seasons would you be willing to sacrifice to go for it in 2018?

It would look like getting a couple of starters of the Cobb/Lynn tier, and it would likely mean Manny walking at the end of the year unless we are 10+ games out of the WC in July. That would not be my choice either, but it might be the best we can do assuming a) Manny doesn't sign and b) DD will not trade him, both of which I believe are fair assumptions.

[OFFNY]

12 hours ago, rudyrooster said:

 

What big, long-term contract has ever worked out for the Orioles in recent memory (Adam Jones perhaps)? I will be shocked if the Orioles sign Manny for the money that he wants. Schoop, they could maybe sign to a 5/$100M deal, which seems reasonable to me. the best bet probably for this organization is to trade both for some young, cheap prospects. Just my thoughts ...

 

o

 

Adam Jones and Nick Markakis.

 

o

[Lucky_13]

What I don't get is what is the apprehension with giving these guys massive contracts? I understand you don't want to give a 28-29 year old a seven or eight year deal since they are already in and soon to be past their prime. But if you give Schoop and Machado 8-10 year deals, you get their 25-32 seasons and only have to deal with a little decline at the end. That's a wise investment compared to giving a 29 year old Davis a 7 year deal. 

[Aristotelian]

49 minutes ago, Lucky_13 said:

What I don't get is what is the apprehension with giving these guys massive contracts? I understand you don't want to give a 28-29 year old a seven or eight year deal since they are already in and soon to be past their prime. But if you give Schoop and Machado 8-10 year deals, you get their 25-32 seasons and only have to deal with a little decline at the end. That's a wise investment compared to giving a 29 year old Davis a 7 year deal. 

Any number the O's offer for Manny will be beaten by the Yankees, Sox, or Dodgers by another $20M. This is not about the O's. It is out of our control. Manny will not sign with the O's. 

Schoop is more realistic, but what is the point of signing Schoop if we trade Manny and go full rebuild?

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

Adam Jones and Nick Markakis.

 

o

Hardys first deal

[OFFNY]

14 hours ago, rudyrooster said:

 

What big, long-term contract has ever worked out for the Orioles in recent memory (Adam Jones perhaps)? I will be shocked if the Orioles sign Manny for the money that he wants. Schoop, they could maybe sign to a 5/$100M deal, which seems reasonable to me. the best bet probably for this organization is to trade both for some young, cheap prospects. Just my thoughts ...

 

 

 

1 hour ago, OFFNY said:

o

Adam Jones and Nick Markakis.

o

 

 

6 minutes ago, foxfield said:

 

J.J. Hardy's first deal.

 

o

 

I thought of that also, but was only 3 years for $7 Million per year ($21 Million overall) ........ which even for a mid-market team like the Orioles would probably not be considered a "Big, Long-Term" contract.

 

o