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Assume we don’t trade Manny and he walks


Frobby

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58 minutes ago, birdwatcher55 said:

The fact management is not talking extension tells me they have decided to trade Machado at some point. He is going to hit free agency, what fool wouldn't see if he could bust someone for $500 mil, but that doesn't mean we should be stupid enough to pay for it. Rather than pay someone that outlandish amount, I want to see that money spent on pitching and player development and yes international talent. Our farm system appears headed in the right direction. Let's bring it all the way back and wish Machado well on his future endeavors.

Yea, this is simply too pragmatic for our front office.  But we can hope, can't we? 

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10 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Haha.  I don't know what the Orioles consider hopelessly out of it.     It would have to be pretty close to 0%.

My take is that if you are even at 10% odds at the deadline, that's a 1/10 chance you are doing the right thing if you buy or hold at the deadline.  A 9/10 chance that you are just hurting the club's future by not moving short term assets.  I'm not talking a full sell or anything if you think the team can compete in the near future.  

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Why are they waiting to discuss an extension (with Machado)? Can someone please explain to me how that strategy helps the team? They need to force his hand and determine if resigning him is even a possibility. And if it's not he should be traded this offseason. For all of you claiming they need to "take one more shot" this season, the team will be paying the price for not trading Manny for years if all they get is draft pick compensation for him. And I don't even think they're a competitor with him. 

 

  • The Orioles will wait until later in the offseason to discuss extensions with third baseman Manny Machado and center fielder Adam Jones, Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com relays. Kubatko doesn’t expect an extension for Machado to come to fruition, which isn’t surprising given that he’s primed sign a mega-deal on the open market a year from now. Interestingly, though, Kubatko hears that Machado would prefer to play shortstop instead of third base, which could make a potential trip to free agency all the more intriguing. Machado logged 52 appearances at short between 2015-16 but has otherwise played the hot corner since debuting in 2012.
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3 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Why are they waiting to discuss an extension (with Machado)? Can someone please explain to me how that strategy helps the team? They need to force his hand and determine if resigning him is even a possibility. And if it's not he should be traded this offseason. For all of you claiming they need to "take one more shot" this season, the team will be paying the price for not trading Manny for years if all they get is draft pick compensation for him. And I don't even think they're a competitor with him. 

 

  • The Orioles will wait until later in the offseason to discuss extensions with third baseman Manny Machado and center fielder Adam Jones, Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com relays. Kubatko doesn’t expect an extension for Machado to come to fruition, which isn’t surprising given that he’s primed sign a mega-deal on the open market a year from now. Interestingly, though, Kubatko hears that Machado would prefer to play shortstop instead of third base, which could make a potential trip to free agency all the more intriguing. Machado logged 52 appearances at short between 2015-16 but has otherwise played the hot corner since debuting in 2012.

Only thing I can think of is that the negotiations with Machado and Jones could be impacted by what they do in the free agent market, especially the starting pitchers.

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1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Only thing I can think of is that the negotiations with Machado and Jones could be impacted by what they do in the free agent market, especially the starting pitchers.

That occurred to me too, but you and i both know that aren't going to go hard after the really big names so should it? I just don' understand why it's taking them so long to get a read on whether or not resigning Manny is even a possibility. Either Manny has the best poker face in the world or Duquette isn't doing his job. 

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28 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Why are they waiting to discuss an extension (with Machado)? Can someone please explain to me how that strategy helps the team? They need to force his hand and determine if resigning him is even a possibility. And if it's not he should be traded this offseason. For all of you claiming they need to "take one more shot" this season, the team will be paying the price for not trading Manny for years if all they get is draft pick compensation for him. And I don't even think they're a competitor with him. 

 

  • The Orioles will wait until later in the offseason to discuss extensions with third baseman Manny Machado and center fielder Adam Jones, Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com relays. Kubatko doesn’t expect an extension for Machado to come to fruition, which isn’t surprising given that he’s primed sign a mega-deal on the open market a year from now. Interestingly, though, Kubatko hears that Machado would prefer to play shortstop instead of third base, which could make a potential trip to free agency all the more intriguing. Machado logged 52 appearances at short between 2015-16 but has otherwise played the hot corner since debuting in 2012.

What kind of extension we would want to give Adam? 2 years, tops?

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26 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Why are they waiting to discuss an extension (with Machado)? Can someone please explain to me how that strategy helps the team? They need to force his hand and determine if resigning him is even a possibility. And if it's not he should be traded this offseason. For all of you claiming they need to "take one more shot" this season, the team will be paying the price for not trading Manny for years if all they get is draft pick compensation for him. And I don't even think they're a competitor with him. 

 

  • The Orioles will wait until later in the offseason to discuss extensions with third baseman Manny Machado and center fielder Adam Jones, Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com relays. Kubatko doesn’t expect an extension for Machado to come to fruition, which isn’t surprising given that he’s primed sign a mega-deal on the open market a year from now. Interestingly, though, Kubatko hears that Machado would prefer to play shortstop instead of third base, which could make a potential trip to free agency all the more intriguing. Machado logged 52 appearances at short between 2015-16 but has otherwise played the hot corner since debuting in 2012.

Doesn't make sense to me either, whether or not Machado is able to be extended should at least somewhat dictate the direction of the rest of the off-season moves.   How can you strategically build a team for the future if you don't know whether or not your best player is going to be on the team.

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23 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

That occurred to me too, but you and i both know that aren't going to go hard after the really big names so should it? I just don' understand why it's taking them so long to get a read on whether or not resigning Manny is even a possibility. Either Manny has the best poker face in the world or Duquette isn't doing his job. 

I think they know he isn't staying and it is all spin.

Nothing to gain on any front to admit Machado is going to walk.

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2 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Why are they waiting to discuss an extension (with Machado)? Can someone please explain to me how that strategy helps the team? They need to force his hand and determine if resigning him is even a possibility. And if it's not he should be traded this offseason. For all of you claiming they need to "take one more shot" this season, the team will be paying the price for not trading Manny for years if all they get is draft pick compensation for him. And I don't even think they're a competitor with him. 

Your question assumes that the the owner/decision-maker wants to help his team in the same way that you and I would like to see that happen. I don't think that's the case.

It's pretty clear to me that the owner's goal is to maximize he team's chances to win the World Series in 2018 or 2019 (or, maybe, 2020) -- not to improve the team. With that  longshot as his goal, ihe wants to wait and see whether to try to sign Manny to an extension, keep him  through the 2018 season,  or trade him. That way, he will have a better idea whether the team can make its best run in 2018 with Manny,  in 2019 and beyond with Manny on an extended contract (though that seems like a fantasy), or with assets to be acquired in a trade for Manny. The possibility that Manny's trade value will diminish  during the time discussions are deferred just isn't that important to him. 

So our fool of an owner is making another decision that's likely to hurt the team. What else should we expect?

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4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Assuming Manny and Britton stay healthy, we are likely to get as much,  probably more in Britton's case than we would get right now.    At this point (both should have been traded before last year) it is best to wait and see where the team is at mid season.   Unfortunately, because of 1997 or was it 1998, Angelos is gun shy about making any moves at the deadline unless the team is almost mathematically eliminated from a wild card spot at that time.   If the Orioles stay close to .500 into July Manny and Britton will finish the year with the Orioles.

I don't think trade deadline Manny has the same value as season starting Manny.

Britton you might be right.

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...so now they're considering moving Manny to SS? Then why did they trade for Tim Beckham? Why do I feel like this team no long term vision? On the bright side if we sign Todd Frazier we can arguably have the worst hitting corner infielders in the league. 

 

  • Orioles officials are debating whether or not to move Manny Machado to shortstop next season.  While Machado is a free agent next winter, incumbent shortstop Tim Beckham may also not be the long-term answer at the position, as his scorching-hot first month with the O’s doesn’t erase other concerns about his overall offensive and defensive capability.  Given that Machado himself would reportedly prefer to move from third base to his original minor league position, it doesn’t seem like the O’s would meet with any resistance from the star infielder if they decided on the move.  Machado has been one of baseball’s best defensive third basemen but he has also displayed an above-average glove (5.4 UZR/150, +2 Defensive Runs Saved) over 433 career innings at short.  A position shift would greatly alter Baltimore’s offseason plans and put them in line to seek out third base help, perhaps even a top free agent like Mike Moustakas or Todd Frazier.  The O’s could also aim lower and simply look for a platoon partner to join Beckham at the hot corner.
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