Assume we don’t trade Manny and he walks

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

Manny walks or will be resigned. DD is not going to dump him.

That is not my opinion of what he should do.

That is my opinion on what he will do.

There is a difference.

If Manny walks with nothing in return, OH is going to be an ugly place to be.

This kind of reminds me of the scene in Austin Powers where a steamroller comes at someone at about 2 mph and and he can’t get out of the way.  

[Spy Fox]

1 hour ago, Redskins Rick said:

Manny walks or will be resigned. DD is not going to dump him.

That is not my opinion of what he should do.

That is my opinion on what he will do.

There is a difference.

If Manny walks with nothing in return, OH is going to be an ugly place to be.

I think he'll be traded only if we're really out of it in late July. Like basement, 10+ games under .500, 10+ games out of WC spot out of it. Five games out but behind seven teams won't count. 

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, Spy Fox said:

I think he'll be traded only if we're really out of it in late July. Like basement, 10+ games under .500, 10+ games out of WC spot out of it. Five games out but behind seven teams won't count. 

DD has said numerous times that he doesn't like trading away a player who you dont think you can keep, as you dont get anything in return normally.

[sportsfan8703]

We need to just offer Manny 10/300 and stop messing around.  Just stagger it so it doesn't start hitting big until after AJ, Trumbo, and O'day come off the books.  

At this point get creative.  Promise Manny that he can play SS and lock up Schoop too.  Sell him on the idea of he and Schoop being a double play combo for a long time.  

I say pay Manny and let him relax.  He's been a team guy so far to play 3rd.  Some of the best 3rd of all time.  Give him is big payday and the position he wants to play.  Plus bat him 3rd.  Sell him on the idea that he's going to be able to play with his boy Schoop, at the position he wants, and be able to go down as one of the greatest SS's ever.  That's the type of sell job it's going to take to keep him away from the NYY.  

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We need to just offer Manny 10/300 and stop messing around.  Just stagger it so it doesn't start hitting big until after AJ, Trumbo, and O'day come off the books.  

At this point get creative.  Promise Manny that he can play SS and lock up Schoop too.  Sell him on the idea of he and Schoop being a double play combo for a long time.  

I say pay Manny and let him relax.  He's been a team guy so far to play 3rd.  Some of the best 3rd of all time.  Give him is big payday and the position he wants to play.  Plus bat him 3rd.  Sell him on the idea that he's going to be able to play with his boy Schoop, at the position he wants, and be able to go down as one of the greatest SS's ever.  That's the type of sell job it's going to take to keep him away from the NYY.  

I'm now imaging that I'm in an alternative timeline where the Orioles front office and ownership would be this forward thinking.  

[Tx Oriole]

4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We need to just offer Manny 10/300 and stop messing around.  Just stagger it so it doesn't start hitting big until after AJ, Trumbo, and O'day come off the books.  

At this point get creative.  Promise Manny that he can play SS and lock up Schoop too.  Sell him on the idea of he and Schoop being a double play combo for a long time.  

I say pay Manny and let him relax.  He's been a team guy so far to play 3rd.  Some of the best 3rd of all time.  Give him is big payday and the position he wants to play.  Plus bat him 3rd.  Sell him on the idea that he's going to be able to play with his boy Schoop, at the position he wants, and be able to go down as one of the greatest SS's ever.  That's the type of sell job it's going to take to keep him away from the NYY.  

I disagree. Manny is great at 3rd. Why open up a hole at 3rd? I think Beckham is pretty good at SS. I want Manny to stay an Oriole. But if the FO has to give Manny extra inticements then let him go. The O's come first not Manny. 

[sportsfan8703]

21 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

I disagree. Manny is great at 3rd. Why open up a hole at 3rd? I think Beckham is pretty good at SS. I want Manny to stay an Oriole. But if the FO has to give Manny extra inticements then let him go. The O's come first not Manny. 

Who is Tim Beckham?  What's he ever proven?  He's not some established MLB SS.  

It's just like two years ago when Hardy got hurt.  Buck wanted to play Flaherty at SS, and Manny said No, that he watned to win.  Manny at SS is what is best for the O's.  

Make Manny happy.  Who cares about Beckham?  Manny has been a team player and played out of position for 5+ seasons.  If Manny wants to play SS, and that helps him sign an extension, then Manny is your SS going forward.  

Beckham can try and play 3rd, COF, or be the Util guy.  I'm wouldn't want the FO to lose Manny because we were worried about Bex.  Some dude that just had a 6 week hot streak that he'll never come close to again ever in his career.  

The offseason is about taking a step back and being real.  Beckham isn't entrenched at SS.  You could sell Manny on winning and not replacing JJ Hardy, but Tim freaking Beckham.  C'mon.  

[Frobby]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

Who is Tim Beckham?  What's he ever proven?  He's not some established MLB SS.  

It's just like two years ago when Hardy got hurt.  Buck wanted to play Flaherty at SS, and Manny said No, that he watned to win.  Manny at SS is what is best for the O's.  

Make Manny happy.  Who cares about Beckham?  Manny has been a team player and played out of position for 5+ seasons.  If Manny wants to play SS, and that helps him sign an extension, then Manny is your SS going forward.  

Beckham can try and play 3rd, COF, or be the Util guy.  I'm wouldn't want the FO to lose Manny because we were worried about Bex.  Some dude that just had a 6 week hot streak that he'll never come close to again ever in his career.  

The offseason is about taking a step back and being real.  Beckham isn't entrenched at SS.  You could sell Manny on winning and not replacing JJ Hardy, but Tim freaking Beckham.  C'mon.  

You’re guessing at what Manny wants, and frankly, what he wants is secondary to what’s best for the team.   If Buck decides, from a baseball standpoint, that Manny at SS is our best alignment, I’m fine with that, but I see no reason why Manny’s feelings come into this unless he’s signed a long-term deal and that has been part of the discussion.    

My personal opinion is that Beckham at SS, Manny at 3B is our best alignment.    But that’s for Buck to decide.   

[Tx Oriole]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Who is Tim Beckham?  What's he ever proven?  He's not some established MLB SS.  

It's just like two years ago when Hardy got hurt.  Buck wanted to play Flaherty at SS, and Manny said No, that he watned to win.  Manny at SS is what is best for the O's.  

Make Manny happy.  Who cares about Beckham?  Manny has been a team player and played out of position for 5+ seasons.  If Manny wants to play SS, and that helps him sign an extension, then Manny is your SS going forward.  

Beckham can try and play 3rd, COF, or be the Util guy.  I'm wouldn't want the FO to lose Manny because we were worried about Bex.  Some dude that just had a 6 week hot streak that he'll never come close to again ever in his career.  

The offseason is about taking a step back and being real.  Beckham isn't entrenched at SS.  You could sell Manny on winning and not replacing JJ Hardy, but Tim freaking Beckham.  C'mon.  

Now that's kind of funny since he is playing that position. 

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

You’re guessing at what Manny wants, and frankly, what he wants is secondary to what’s best for the team.   If Buck decides, from a baseball standpoint, that Manny at SS is our best alignment, I’m fine with that, but I see no reason why Manny’s feelings come into this unless he’s signed a long-term deal and that has been part of the discussion.    

My personal opinion is that Beckham at SS, Manny at 3B is our best alignment.    But that’s for Buck to decide.   

If Manny wants to play SS, and that's what it's going to take to extend him, well then Mr. Beckham is looking for a new position.   

Beckham obviously isn't a team first guy.  The Rays wanted him to be Melvin Mora and he cried.  So why cater to Tim Beckham?  

[Tx Oriole]

5 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

If Manny wants to play SS, and that's what it's going to take to extend him, well then Mr. Beckham is looking for a new position.   

Beckham obviously isn't a team first guy.  The Rays wanted him to be Melvin Mora and he cried.  So why cater to Tim Beckham?  

I agree with Frobby. The team must come first. If Buck thinks Manny at 3rd and Beckham at SS or moving Manny to SS then Buck has to make that choice. He has to  do what he thinks is best for the O's. 

[Frobby]

16 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

If Manny wants to play SS, and that's what it's going to take to extend him, well then Mr. Beckham is looking for a new position.   

Beckham obviously isn't a team first guy.  The Rays wanted him to be Melvin Mora and he cried.  So why cater to Tim Beckham?  

So if Manny wants to play SS and won’t extend without that, does that make him a team first guy?

I actually think you’re not giving Manny enough credit.    I think Manny wants to win and will play wherever the manager thinks best, and won’t sulk about it.     Also, last week on Wall to Wall Baseball, Roch says he’s heard that Manny is on the fence about whether he’d be better off at SS or 3B, due to the extra wear and tear at SS.   So I don’t think it’s a given at all that leaving Manny at 3B would cause issues with Manny.

Also, I said nothing in my post about catering to Beckham.    It’s a matter of what defensive alignment Buck decides is best.    Manny has won a Platinum Glove and a Gold Glove at 3B and undoubtedly is one of the best in the game there.    Beckham’s metrics have him slightly above average overall at SS, though to be certain, he’s more error-prone than we’d like.    Who’s to say that switching them wouldn’t be a worse alignment?     Manny’s had far more pro experience at 3B than SS, and Beckham has started 5 games at 3B in his entire big league career.    I think it’s highly unlikely that we’d improve the defense by having them switch positions.    But again, all I’m saying is that Buck should decide that.   

[Luke-OH]

I think we’ve all heard that there was friction between the Rays and Beckham and it went both ways.  I don’t think it’s fair to assume he’s going to be a problem in Baltimore until he’s shows that he is.  

If Manny wants to sign an extension then by all means move him to short if that is a requirement of the extension.  Otherwise leave him at 3B until the extension is signed.

Also, why are people saying it’s ok for Hardy to be at SS but not Beckham. Beckham was a better player than Hardy in 2016 and 2017.  You don’t set the lineup based solely on defense, you look at overall contributions to the team, and Beckham much more valuable than Hardy at this point.

 

 

[weams]

On 11/24/2017 at 11:05 AM, sportsfan8703 said:

We need to just offer Manny 10/300 and stop messing around.  Just stagger it so it doesn't start hitting big until after AJ, Trumbo, and O'day come off the books.  

At this point get creative.  Promise Manny that he can play SS and lock up Schoop too.  Sell him on the idea of he and Schoop being a double play combo for a long time.  

I say pay Manny and let him relax.  He's been a team guy so far to play 3rd.  Some of the best 3rd of all time.  Give him is big payday and the position he wants to play.  Plus bat him 3rd.  Sell him on the idea that he's going to be able to play with his boy Schoop, at the position he wants, and be able to go down as one of the greatest SS's ever.  That's the type of sell job it's going to take to keep him away from the NYY.  

I thought we offered him 350? For 12 or something. Or maybe that was just speculation on someone's part. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, phillyOs119 said:

I think we’ve all heard that there was friction between the Rays and Beckham and it went both ways.  I don’t think it’s fair to assume he’s going to be a problem in Baltimore until he’s shows that he is.  

If Manny wants to sign an extension then by all means move him to short if that is a requirement of the extension.  Otherwise leave him at 3B until the extension is signed.

Also, why are people saying it’s ok for Hardy to be at SS but not Beckham. Beckham was a better player than Hardy in 2016 and 2017.  You don’t set the lineup based solely on defense, you look at overall contributions to the team, and Beckham much more valuable than Hardy at this point.

 

 

“At this point” being a key phrase.   Hardy was a very key member of the team when Manny arrived, and won Gold Gloves from 2012-14, valued overall at 10.5 rWAR in that span.   The O’s certainly weren’t going to move him off SS then, nor did they sign him for 3/$38 mm planning to move him from SS.    Even though Hardy was just average defensively (and a strong negative on offense) in 2015, I think you can chalk that up to injuries, and he returned to being a solid SS in 2016.     It’s really only in 2017 that it became clear he was done being an above average player, and the O’s reacted by trading for Beckham.