No more excuses, it's time for Williams to go

[Mackus]

Sooooo Blake can build from his Soph year, and ascend to All-time Terp Great, and NBA player… but Hayes can not progress from where he was as a Soph, to be a close approximation of what Blake was? That is nonsense.

Something close to that. Blake was an excellent player his Soph year too. He was quite good his freshman year.

I think Hayes can be a good player, but I don't think he has the talent that Blake had. You said there is nothing Blake could do physically that Hayes can't, but I disagree. I think Blake was a better ball handler, better passer, and had better court vision. He was also a better decision maker. He's just a more talented guy, IMO, and I also think he's more driven to make the most out of the talent he has, but that might not be fair.

I certainly think Hayes will improve this year and again before his senior year, I just don't think he'll ever be as good as Blake was, because he's got less to work with.

[DuffMan]

You are correct.. I am compairing the 2008-9 Terps vs 3 former teams… in this compairsion vs the 2002-3 Terps, I said Blake is better, but not tremendously.

Mackus countered, essientially stating he believed the difference to be vast…..

I showed that Hayes numbers as a Soph, were basically comparable to the numbers Blake produced as a Senior.. Mackus again countered, stating you can not look at stats alone… and I agreed… reminding all that you have to consider the fact that due to circumstance, Hayes was playing out of position at the 2G.

Hayes figures to be a better player as a Junior, than he was as a Soph… and physically, there is nothing that Blake does, that Hayes is not capable of… so the biggest difference between Blake as a Senior, and Hayes as a Soph was mental… which got to my last point, that Blake was not a finished product as a Soph either… point of that compairson being, players progress and mature overtime.

BTW - Here are numbers for Soph Steve Blake…

6.9ppg, 6.9 assts, 3.1 turnovers, 39.9% from the floor, 39% from 3, 71% from the line

& again Soph numbers from Hayes..

9.9ppg, 4.5 assts to 2.4 turnovers... 42.7 from the field... 39.2% from 3... 85% from the line...

Sooooo Blake can build from his Soph year, and ascend to All-time Terp Great, and NBA player… but Hayes can not progress from where he was as a Soph, to be a close approximation of what Blake was? That is nonsense.

If Hayes is such a great PG then why wasn't he playing that position already? If he could really run the offense and create he would be at the point and Vasquez would be the SG. Blake came in off the bat and ran the offense Hayes lost his job as far as being the PG

[Eight]

Blake's defense alone, along with his toughness, makes him miles and miles ahead of Hayes. That said, I would definitely take Vasquez over Blake or Nicholas, particularly if we're comparing them in their JR year. Nicholas is not even close based on what he did as an underclassman.

I do not expect many wins from next years team, but the backcourt should be deep and talented. Assuming Kim and Mosley are on next season's team, that will give the Terps seven guys who can play the 1-2-3 positions. The team will struggle mightily in the frontcourt, but playing a four guard set or having Milbourne at the four at times can compensate for that to an extent.

I do not think this is close to a Sweet 16 team, but I also do not think it's out of the question that the team is competitive enough to be at least on the bubble if Gary coaches the way he has shown himself capable of coaching in the past.

[ccbird]

I do think this team might suprise some people this year and stay rather competitive especially if Tucker, Bowie and Burney can build on what they were doing at the end of last year. With that said it is still an uphill climb and right now any comparisons to the '96 team or the '02 are laughable. Those were just more talented teams that each had quality, upperclassmen with a lot of tourney experience.

The Blake- Nicholas vs Vasquez- Hayes comparison isn't even close. Blake was better than both Vas and Hayes and Nicholas was probably better than Vas too though their roles are different. Like someone said earlier you got to stop looking at stats and trying to make comparisons. Blake and Hayes were the much better backcourt. They each handled the ball better than both Hayes and Vas, they are both quicker and play better defense than Hayes and Vas, they didn't turn the ball over as much as Hayes and Vas and they shot better than Hayes and Vas. I mean besides rebounding which is coming mostly from Vas what do Vas and Hayes do as well or better than Nicholas and Blake.

If Gary had his way Hayes would be a part time player this year and that's what he should be anyway. Both Maze and or Evans if they had got here would have been inserted into the starting rotation. I mean Gary said at the end of the year he wanted to move Vas off the point and get the team quicker. He tried to do it in the offseason but it all fell through.

[ccbird]

Goes back to GV's and Hayes Frosh year..

Team was starting DJ at the 3, and Jones at the 2.. Both seniors having good years… neither was going to sit… GV was ahead of EH as a player, and the spot available for him to play was at the 1…

GV does not shoot will enough to be a true 2, and he does make plays as a 1… but ultimately, he would still be better suited at the off-guard…

Last year's team had limited shooting ability, and it made sense for Hayes to play off the ball, and take open shots… Hayes is a PG, and it sucks that he gets disparaged regularly, while playing out of position…

I will be interested to see what happens with this come October.

Depending on how well Bowie and Tucker come along and possibly even Mosley if he gets qualified there is a good chance that Hayes isn't getting more than 10 or 15 minutes a game come ACC time. He simply isn't as talented as any of those other players. Sure, Gary will have him starting in November because he is a junior but expect his minutes to go down as the year goes on. And if it doesn't go down and he is playing 30+ min a game like he was last year we are in deep deep trouble.

[Eight]

I do think this team might suprise some people this year and stay rather competitive especially if Tucker, Bowie and Burney can build on what they were doing at the end of last year. With that said it is still an uphill climb and right now any comparisons to the '96 team or the '02 are laughable. Those were just more talented teams that each had quality, upperclassmen with a lot of tourney experience.

The Blake- Nicholas vs Vasquez- Hayes comparison isn't even close. Blake was better than both Vas and Hayes and Nicholas was probably better than Vas too though their roles are different. Like someone said earlier you got to stop looking at stats and trying to make comparisons. Blake and Hayes were the much better backcourt. They each handled the ball better than both Hayes and Vas, they are both quicker and play better defense than Hayes and Vas, they didn't turn the ball over as much as Hayes and Vas and they shot better than Hayes and Vas. I mean besides rebounding which is coming mostly from Vas what do Vas and Hayes do as well or better than Nicholas and Blake.

If Gary had his way Hayes would be a part time player this year and that's what he should be anyway. Both Maze and or Evans if they had got here would have been inserted into the starting rotation. I mean Gary said at the end of the year he wanted to move Vas off the point and get the team quicker. He tried to do it in the offseason but it all fell through.

Whoa, Vas is a MUCH better ballhandler than Nicholas. Vas ran the point on an NCAA Tourney team that won 25 games his frosh year, no chance Nicholas could have done that. He's a much better scorer than Blake and pretty comparable to Nicholas, at least. Switch Vasquez with either of those guys and I doubt people would be saying they were so much better than he was.

[inmn]

CR,

In comparing stats please realize you play as part of the team, Vasquez and Hayes put up numbers they wouldn't on a better team as there were more minutes and fewer options. Beyond that games are won on defense and they are really going to struggle with penetration and no shot blockers other than Burney-GW will have to tweak his defense which is built on interior help.

Then what do you do with a modified flex that runs through a power inside game if you don't have 4/5's that lack passing skills and touch? What do you do if Burney or Dupree are tired or in foul trouble? Md struggled down the stretch because after the Carolina game teams adjusted and shut down the inside game. They still have quickness, outside shooting, rebounding and now shot blocking issues. Are there any points of the game that you think they will excel at? I can't think of one, maybe playing passing lanes because of their perimeter length. Hopefully Bowie will develop and become more consistent as other than Vasquez he is the only other player that can beat someone off the dribble. Unless Kim is much stronger than advertised he will be a project.

In hindsight GW should have taken Thomas and Walsh instead of stinging them along hoping to get (and qualify) Jennings and now Mosley (assuming he doesn't qualify-also Maze (if he qualifies)over Evans. That's what happens when you are counting on marginal qualifiers-it killed Lefty at the end too!!

They may not be as bad as the 91-92 team that went 14-15/5-11 or the next year that went 12-16/2-14 but they aren't going to be good either.

[inmn]

It's been said that an alcoholic or an addict hits their bottom when the situation around them deteriorates faster than they can lower their standards. That reminds me of Md basketball now; we keep lowering our standards to discussing making the tournament (not the sweet 16), worrying about recruits qualify, and whether we should admit JUCO combos (academics and arrests).

These weren't issues a few years ago.

[Eight]

Mosley has qualified and will almost certainly be here next year, not worried about that. Would like to have Thomas, but Jennings was too good to pass on, IMO. Unfortunately that would be a moot point if Gilchrist were still here...

[inmn]

True enough.. And if that is still the situation after this coming year, I think there will be a change…

You believe the bottom is going to fall-out, I do not.. We will see what happens on the court.

As far as Thomas and Walsh over Jennings and Mosley….. I think we should have taken Thomas… though Jennings was regarded as program changing talent…

I don't think you could take Walsh over Mosley realistically…

Gary has been killed for not keeping hometown talent in Maryland… when the Baltimore POY wants to commit to you, you can't take Walsh instead…

I agree, a qualified Mosley is preferable-and a much better player.

[Golgo]

Mosley has qualified and will almost certainly be here next year, not worried about that. Would like to have Thomas, but Jennings was too good to pass on, IMO. Unfortunately that would be a moot point if Gilchrist were still here...

WHen did he qualify?

[mweb]

Stoner, no way is this a top-15 team even with Mosley, Kim, and Darden.

And no way is this team more talented than any of the 3 teams you mentioned. Those teams were all legit NCAA teams. This team is not. It'd take a minor miracle to make the tournament. We've only got one impact player. Everybody else is a role player at best. I'd be surprised if anyone on the team other than Vasquez gets any votes for an All-ACC team this year. I think Vasquez will be the only guy considered in the top 20 or so players in the ACC.

Totally agree. Saying this team is as talented as those others teams is extremely optimistic to say the least.

Milbourne vs Profit a wash???? Laron put up 15.8, 5.2, 3.3 that year.

[mweb]

And no, Gary should not be fired, I feel he's reached the level where it will take a lot for him to be fired, and he's not close to being there yet. Yes, I have issues with his recruiting, but he's also had some bad fortune over the past few years in regards to recruiting and assistant coaches.

[Golgo]

Totally agree. Saying this team is as talented as those others teams is extremely optimistic to say the least.

Milbourne vs Profit a wash???? Laron put up 15.8, 5.2, 3.3 that year.

And before Francis came, he was the face of the team. I know this a tangent, but during the "pre-season" Vitale called Profit the best dunker in college basketball... guess he hadn't seen Francis yet.

[Eight]

WHen did he qualify?

I believe the issue has never been about being (NCAA) qualified, but rather meeting Maryland academic standards. I would wager that even if he doesn't meet those standards on his next SAT try, he will still wear the Red and White this fall.