Don’t you wish that just once....

[Frobby]

...we could draft, develop and keep healthy just one guy who became a TOR starter for us?

As we cast about for pitchers to fill out our rotation, I just wish we were better at growing our own.   

There’s still time for either Gausman or Bundy to grow into a TOR role, but I’m not sure that either will.    Praying they prove me wrong, and/or that Harvey lives up to what we thought he was going to be back in 2014.    

[Can_of_corn]

Once more you mean.

 

[webbrick2010]

I just wish we could evaluate our internal talent and not allow them to be easily plucked by organizations that know our talent better than we do:

If we had on our roster:

Zach Davies, Josh Hader, Parker Bridwell, and Ariel Miranda we'd be pretty optimistic about the future.

We gave up a lot of talent for zero return

couple that with the insane lifetime achievement award contracts given to Hardy, Davis, O'day, and Trumbo and DD killed the franchise for at least the next 3-5 years

Self inflicted damage has killed this franchise

[Redskins Rick]

12 hours ago, Frobby said:

...we could draft, develop and keep healthy just one guy who became a TOR starter for us?

As we cast about for pitchers to fill out our rotation, I just wish we were better at growing our own.   

There’s still time for either Gausman or Bundy to grow into a TOR role, but I’m not sure that either will.    Praying they prove me wrong, and/or that Harvey lives up to what we thought he was going to be back in 2014.    

Yes, been a long time since they drafted and had Mussina as their TOR, too damn long.

[Luke-OH]

3 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

I just wish we could evaluate our internal talent and not allow them to be easily plucked by organizations that know our talent better than we do:

If we had on our roster:

Zach Davies, Josh Hader, Parker Bridwell, and Ariel Miranda we'd be pretty optimistic about the future.

We gave up a lot of talent for zero return

couple that with the insane lifetime achievement award contracts given to Hardy, Davis, O'day, and Trumbo and DD killed the franchise for at least the next 3-5 years

Self inflicted damage has killed this franchise

Parker Bridwell and Ariel Miranda are fringe guys, I place no blame there.  Hader was moved in a trade that made sense at the time.  Davies was a mistake at the time, really bad trade.

I also hate the Orioles habit of paying players for what they've already done rather than future production.

I also do agree that the Orioles need to do a better job of understanding their own talent.  You can argue the importance of this type of thing, but the Orioles lost Brallan Perez in the minor league portion of the rule 5 draft for no reason.  And then to add insult to injury Roch says in his blog they were hoping not to lose Jay Gonzalez who has the ceiling of an Org guy.  I might be too high on Brallan Perez, but I absolutely guarantee he has a better chance of being a MLB asset than Jay Gonzalez.

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, phillyOs119 said:

Parker Bridwell and Ariel Miranda are fringe guys, I place no blame there.  Hader was moved in a trade that made sense at the time.  Davies was a mistake at the time, really bad trade.

I also hate the Orioles habit of paying players for what they've already done rather than future production.

I also do agree that the Orioles need to do a better job of understanding their own talent.  You can argue the importance of this type of thing, but the Orioles lost Brallan Perez in the minor league portion of the rule 5 draft for no reason.  And then to add insult to injury Roch says in his blog they were hoping not to lose Jay Gonzalez who has the ceiling of an Org guy.  I might be too high on Brallan Perez, but I absolutely guarantee he has a better chance of being a MLB asset than Jay Gonzalez.

None of those was drafted as TOR potential arms.

 

[Luke-OH]

2 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

None of those was drafted as TOR potential arms.

 

No, I didn't claim any of them were, I was breaking down Webbrick's post.

[hoosiers]

Tough to hear this complaint now about five plus years with this GM.  

   - Tough to draft and develop when we have forfeited first round picks for the likes of JImenez and Gallardo and dealt multiple high draft picks to shed relievers.

   - Trader Dan is constantly attempting to bolster the major league roster by dealing from our minor league system and getting fleeced multiple times.

It is a nightmare to look at the pitchers DD has acquired and given up.  And the guys acquired have been poor producers almost on Day 1, and the guys given up have been producers for their new organizations within months (JakeA, Bridwell).

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, phillyOs119 said:

No, I didn't claim any of them were, I was breaking down Webbrick's post.

I know, I quoted the wrong post. Sorry.

[Moose Milligan]

Not just once, but about 5 times.  That'd be awesome. 

 

 

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, hoosiers said:

Tough to hear this complaint now about five plus years with this GM.  

   - Tough to draft and develop when we have forfeited first round picks for the likes of JImenez and Gallardo and dealt multiple high draft picks to shed relievers.

   - Trader Dan is constantly attempting to bolster the major league roster by dealing from our minor league system and getting fleeced multiple times.

It is a nightmare to look at the pitchers DD has acquired and given up.  And the guys acquired have been poor producers almost on Day 1, and the guys given up have been producers for their new organizations within months (JakeA, Bridwell).

6 years of DD helm.

2016 89-73

2015 81-81

2014 96-66

2013 85-77

2012 93-69

Going into 2017, they were the winiest team in the AL, if I remember correctly.

Yes, 2017 sucked, but I am not ready to drink the kool-aid.

Was you not around in the dark ages?

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

13 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

Parker Bridwell and Ariel Miranda are fringe guys, I place no blame there.  Hader was moved in a trade that made sense at the time.  Davies was a mistake at the time, really bad trade.

I also hate the Orioles habit of paying players for what they've already done rather than future production.

I also do agree that the Orioles need to do a better job of understanding their own talent.  You can argue the importance of this type of thing, but the Orioles lost Brallan Perez in the minor league portion of the rule 5 draft for no reason.  And then to add insult to injury Roch says in his blog they were hoping not to lose Jay Gonzalez who has the ceiling of an Org guy.  I might be too high on Brallan Perez, but I absolutely guarantee he has a better chance of being a MLB asset than Jay Gonzalez.

I will never agree that trading Hoes, Hader and a first round pick for Norris made sense.  It was a clear overpay without the benefit of foresight.

[hoosiers]

4 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

6 years of DD helm.

2016 89-73

2015 81-81

2014 96-66

2013 85-77

2012 93-69

Going into 2017, they were the winiest team in the AL, if I remember correctly.

Yes, 2017 sucked, but I am not ready to drink the kool-aid.

Was you not around in the dark ages?

 

 

I have been here for over 15 years - maybe 16,  If you think we have been winning because DD is our GM, there is no reason to have a discussion.

[Redskins Rick]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I will never agree that trading Hoes, Hader and a first round pick for Norris made sense.  It was a clear overpay without the benefit of foresight.

Who was the first round pick turn out to be?

Hoes has a -.4 WAR with Houston

Hader did a 1.9 WAR with the Brewers

Bud was 1.9 and then -1.5 and -.3 with the team. He was very solid in 2014, and helped them win the division.

So far not a huge overpay, but could be depending on the pick and Hader.

Hoes never really flip the meter for me one way or another.

 

[Luke-OH]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I will never agree that trading Hoes, Hader and a first round pick for Norris made sense.  It was a clear overpay without the benefit of foresight.

Fair enough.

My point is they acquired a cheap average starter at the deadline with 2.5 years of control.  They gave up a 45 FV prospect at the time in Hoes, a 40 FV prospect at the time in Hader (maybe some had a 45 on him), and the pick.  The pick is the most valuable of those assets (at the time).  Compared to other deadline deals, I think it wasn't a good trade or a bad trade, just the normal high cost of doing business at the deadline.