Carson Kelly

[backwardsk]

The catcher in the Cardinals organization has come up in trade rumors for Manny.  If we did get him, what kind of ripple effect would that have on our other prospects?  For example, with Wynns and Kelly in the fold, would they move Sisco from catcher? If Sisco can't catch at the MLB level, left field makes a lot of sense.  But with Mancini, Stewart, Mullins, Salendar, and Hays, would it make sense to try to convert Sisco to 3B similar to Surhoff or Zeile?  Mountcastle's position is iffy, and he may be destined for LF.  I'd spend a lot of effort working with him at 3B in 2018.  It would be big for the organization if he could handle the position.  But if you try to convert Sisco, what levels do you put the two?

[clapdiddy]

I believe that Sisco played SS in high school, so it may not be that much of a stretch to think he can play the infield.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

Who is to say one isn't included in a trade to go elsewhere?

This would effect all 3 current catchers. I don't think they would carry 4 on their 40. Who becomes the odd man? Wynns? He was the most recent. Joseph? If they are rebuilding and have an almost entirely new staff, do they need him?

Sisco changing positions a logical thought. Would he be a "Pedro Alvarez" type, with him being the LH DH option and getting time at 3rd? But what about his arm? Left field? Worked for Mancini but do you clog up another outfield spot with the potential minor leaguers? 

If they keep all 4 and move Sisco elsewhere, you can have Joseph/Wynns in Baltimore, Kelly in Norfolk as catcher, and Sisco in Norfolk working on whatever position. Reason being, let Kelly get constant time behind the dish instead of bench riding.

[billw76]

I think Kelly is better defensively than Sisco, and Sisco is a little better with the bat. It could mean Sisco moves from C, but Kelly did play 3B early in his career, so maybe he could be moved back to 3B. He's strictly been a C since 2014 and I'm not sure how good he was at 3B.

I don't think he makes sense for us considering our top prospect is a C and is pretty much ML ready. 

He doesn't really have much chance to play in St. Louis though with Molina signing an extension. It could be the Cards trying to add him because he's a top prospect and maybe adding him will prevent them from giving up both Wacha and Flaherty. 

[Luke-OH]

10 minutes ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

Who is to say one isn't included in a trade to go elsewhere?

This would effect all 3 current catchers. I don't think they would carry 4 on their 40. Who becomes the odd man? Wynns? He was the most recent. Joseph? If they are rebuilding and have an almost entirely new staff, do they need him?

Sisco changing positions a logical thought. Would he be a "Pedro Alvarez" type, with him being the LH DH option and getting time at 3rd? But what about his arm? Left field? Worked for Mancini but do you clog up another outfield spot with the potential minor leaguers? 

If they keep all 4 and move Sisco elsewhere, you can have Joseph/Wynns in Baltimore, Kelly in Norfolk as catcher, and Sisco in Norfolk working on whatever position. Reason being, let Kelly get constant time behind the dish instead of bench riding.

Sisco’s arm is fine, it’s his footwork/release that’s his bugaboo.

I’d either trade Kelly or Sisco if he’s acquired though. Plenty of teams would put Sisco behind the plate, I think it would be lowering his value to put him elsewhere. I’d move Kelly, I’m not enamored with his swing or bat speed, although he does control the bat well and have a good approach.  If I had to bet, I’d bet on Sisco’s superior athleticism.

[Roll Tide]

49 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

The catcher in the Cardinals organization has come up in trade rumors for Manny.  If we did get him, what kind of ripple effect would that have on our other prospects?  For example, with Wynns and Kelly in the fold, would they move Sisco from catcher? If Sisco can't catch at the MLB level, left field makes a lot of sense.  But with Mancini, Stewart, Mullins, Salendar, and Hays, would it make sense to try to convert Sisco to 3B similar to Surhoff or Zeile?  Mountcastle's position is iffy, and he may be destined for LF.  I'd spend a lot of effort working with him at 3B in 2018.  It would be big for the organization if he could handle the position.  But if you try to convert Sisco, what levels do you put the two?

Sisco hasn't done anything but catch since he was 18 ,....not even 1 game. I'd probably trade him and eventually Joseph when Wynns is ready.

 

[Roll Tide]

6 minutes ago, billw76 said:

I think Kelly is better defensively than Sisco, and Sisco is a little better with the bat. It could mean Sisco moves from C, but Kelly did play 3B early in his career, so maybe he could be moved back to 3B. He's strictly been a C since 2014 and I'm not sure how good he was at 3B.

I don't think he makes sense for us considering our top prospect is a C and is pretty much ML ready. 

He doesn't really have much chance to play in St. Louis though with Molina signing an extension. It could be the Cards trying to add him because he's a top prospect and maybe adding him will prevent them from giving up both Wacha and Flaherty. 

Player.               Arm.           Fielding 

Sisco.                   45/80.           50/80

Kelly                      60/80             65/80

 

if you add Kelly he becomes you future at Catcher. Sisco can go to AAA to try a move to infield either 2B/3B or perhaps you sell high on your #1 rated prospect?

 

[Roll Tide]

15 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

Sisco’s arm is fine, it’s his footwork/release that’s his bugaboo.

I’d either trade Kelly or Sisco if he’s acquired though. Plenty of teams would put Sisco behind the plate, I think it would be lowering his value to put him elsewhere. I’d move Kelly, I’m not enamored with his swing or bat speed, although he does control the bat well and have a good approach.  If I had to bet, I’d bet on Sisco’s superior athleticism.

Honestly both were 22 at AAA this season and their offensive numbers were pretty dam close. By looking at the defensive metrics on MLB Kelly is clearly a better defensive catcher with a better arm. But if you studied Kelly and think they are really comparable perhaps your right. The things said about Siscos defense/arm over the last few years here suggest he has shortcoming nags 

[Legend_Of_Joey]

The question becomes...Would you trade Sisco or move him? Philly is right, his biggest value is as a catcher. You can get a better return for him vs Wynns. You might also be able to leverage another player in the mix with Sisco for something(s), like the Braves and Dodgers just did. 

But...Do you get rid of him? Or more specifically, does Dan get rid of him? 

If you flip Kelly, do you still think Sisco should be moved elsewhere on the field before he gets too old for a change? 

[Tryptamine]

I think the answer is pretty easy. You keep Kelly because he's a much better prospect and you trade Sisco because his bat is unacceptable at any other position unless he by the grace of god is able to play middle infield.

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

The question becomes...Would you trade Sisco or move him? Philly is right, his biggest value is as a catcher. You can get a better return for him vs Wynns. You might also be able to leverage another player in the mix with Sisco for something(s), like the Braves and Dodgers just did. 

But...Do you get rid of him? Or more specifically, does Dan get rid of him? 

If you flip Kelly, do you still think Sisco should be moved elsewhere on the field before he gets too old for a change? 

I sell him high to another organization .... the Orioles need strong defense to play up their poor SP. I'd like to trade Trumbo mid season , move Mancini to DH, and try to stop playing guys way out of position. Can he play above average defense at 2B/3B? If you think so maybe try him ...but why not sell high on a piece you no longer need?

[Legend_Of_Joey]

I do wonder how Sisco would grade vs Mountcastle at 3rd.

[Lucky_13]

Think he could move to 2nd like Craig Biggio? 

I think his bat profiles better there. If he was a SS in HS it might not be too foreign and I imagine would be easier then 3rd. 

 

[Luke-OH]

30 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

I think the answer is pretty easy. You keep Kelly because he's a much better prospect and you trade Sisco because his bat is unacceptable at any other position unless he by the grace of god is able to play middle infield.

I don’t think that is a common sentiment in the prospect analyst community.

Edit: To clarify some analysts are higher on Kelly and some are higher on Sisco, but I think very few if any think Kelly is a “much better prospect”.

[palmer22]

Why can't Sisco DH? We need left-handed bats in the worst way.