Is Manny a 5 tool player?

[Redskins Rick]

Since we don't have enough Manny threads. We need another.

Please leave all the trade talks to the other threads, his toolset doesn't change based on the team name on his jersey.

This is strictly a discussion on his tool-set.

I think most will agree with that the 5 tools are:

1. hitting for average;

2. hitting for power;

3. base running skills and speed;

4. throwing ability; and

5. fielder abilities ?

Hands down, he is 4 tools for sure.

He has base running skills.

So does he have enough speed to be considered a true 5 tool player?

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

I think he makes as many poor base running decisions as he does savvy ones.

And no he isn't a plus runner.

[Redskins Rick]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think he makes as many poor base running decisions as he does savvy ones.

And no he isn't a plus runner.

The singles he turns into doubles with aggressive base running count for anything?

[Redskins Rick]

I remember 2015, he had 20 SB, there was talk of his might become a 30-30 player.

You have to have some speed to attempt this.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I remember 2015, he had 20 SB, there was talk of his might become a 30-30 player.

You have to have some speed to attempt this.

You haven't noticed Manny bulking up?

[Aristotelian]

2 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

The singles he turns into doubles with aggressive base running count for anything?

Do you have to be above average in every category, or can you be passable in all of them while excelling in at least some?

When you factor in the doubles he turns into singles when he doesn't hustle, the lack of SBs, and the senseless outs at 3B, I think he is an average baserunner at best. Fangraphs has him as a negative baserunner throughout his career (except that one year he randomly stole 20 bases), for what it's worth.

I also do not think he has established that he will hit for average consistently. He gets in big slumps when he is overswinging. Never hit for average in the minors, average and OBP dropped to .259/.310 last year. But it's not like he is Chris Davis or anything.

That said, he has power and is among the best I have ever seen at catching and throwing the ball. He is a great overall player.

[Redskins Rick]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You haven't noticed Manny bulking up?

bulking up his chest and arms by adding muscles for HR power, doesn't always impact the lower body parts does it?

[Spy Fox]

I see a "5-tool player" as someone who really contributes positively with all five of those tools. 

I don't count Manny as a 5-tool player. He's only been a SB threat in one of his six MLB seasons, his career SB rate isn't good, and other advanced stats also rate him as below average on the bases. He may not be slow, but his speed tool doesn't make much positive impact on the game. 

He's better than a bunch of the guys I would call 5-tool players though.

[99ct]

I don't think he's a true 5-tool player, but then again, very few are. Of the skills you listed, Manny's batting average is pretty unspectacular - although his OBP is pretty good, and maybe you should replace BA with OBP in your list of 5 tools.

 

Moreover, baserunning is average at best, IMO. He makes blunders, and doesn't really steal enough bases to compensate. 

 

That said, his power and glove are far above average, IMO, so he's still a very valuable player ... but perhaps not that diversified

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, 99ct said:

I don't think he's a true 5-tool player, but then again, very few are. Of the skills you listed, Manny's batting average is pretty unspectacular - although his OBP is pretty good, and maybe you should replace BA with OBP in your list of 5 tools.

 

Moreover, baserunning is average at best, IMO. He makes blunders, and doesn't really steal enough bases to compensate. 

 

That said, his power and glove are far above average, IMO, so he's still a very valuable player ... but perhaps not that diversified

high .270 to .300, is pretty average, in my opinion.

with his down-year, he is still a career .279 hitter.

[webbrick2010]

He's a three tool player

He doesn't hit for a high average and certainly not a high OBP

and his base running if poor. I don't know how to research this but I believe he has made the third out at 3B at a historic rate, I counted at least 3 last year alone. Add to that the grounders he doesn't run out, the times he was thrown out at second after admiring his fly ball hitting a wall in the OF (assume he is surprised that it wasn't a HR).

[Redskins Rick]

Who is the last 5 tool player the Orioles had?

Do we have to go all the way back to Jeffrey Hammonds?

[Todd-O]

Manny, at the plate, is more concerned about Manny than the situation and the kind of outcome that's needed.  

He's not a 5-tool player.

[99ct]

On 8/31/2017 at 3:17 PM, wildbillhiccup said:

Completely agree with you, but I have a hunch we wouldn't have to give up much. The Tigers will just be happy to get out of that contracts, since they're already stuck with Miggy's terrible contract. 

 

3 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

high .270 to .300, is pretty average, in my opinion.

with his down-year, he is still a career .279 hitter.

Yeah, sorry, I equate "unspectacular" with "pretty average," as you call it. We're on the same page.

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, webbrick2010 said:

He's a three tool player

He doesn't hit for a high average and certainly not a high OBP

and his base running if poor. I don't know how to research this but I believe he has made the third out at 3B at a historic rate, I counted at least 3 last year alone. Add to that the grounders he doesn't run out, the times he was thrown out at second after admiring his fly ball hitting a wall in the OF (assume he is surprised that it wasn't a HR).

Count on WB to be negative.

Scoring criteria is hit for average, not high average and OBP is not counted in the discussion.

Not sure I would call his base running low, as he makes singles into doubles, which helps even out his blunders. Maybe call it average.

I believe that after Buck talked to him behind closed doors, he got over the watching fly balls.

Which makes him 4 tools, not 5.