What if the O's did not need starting pitching for Manny?

[wildcard]

What if the O's aggressive  signed Vargas and Cashner to fill out the rotation with Bundy, Gausman and Castro/Cortes.   With Harvey and  Akin coming in 2019,  then the O's could listen to the best  deal for Manny.   It would change with he O's would need from 2 starters to position players and pitching probably including a 3B.

Its will probably take 2/24 to get Vargas and 2/28 with a vesting option on a third year to get Cashner.   The O's have the money to do this if they have 40m to spend.  This would cost 26m in 2018.   

What do you think?

[Luke-OH]

17 minutes ago, wildcard said:

What if the O's aggressive  signed Vargas and Cashner to fill out the rotation with Bundy, Gausman and Castro/Cortes.   With Harvey and  Akin coming in 2019,  then the O's could listen to the best  deal for Manny.   It would change with he O's would need from 2 starters to position players and pitching probably including a 3B.

Its will probably take 2/24 to get Vargas and 2/28 with a vesting option on a third year to get Cashner.   The O's have the money to do this if they have 40m to spend.  This would cost 26m in 2018.   

What do you think?

Better option, IMO.  Trade for Straily + Prado.  Trade for Danny Duffy.  Neither should have a huge prospect cost (Duffy would cost something significant, but not crippling due to fairly high salary).  For a similar cost to your idea, they get two pitchers I'd take over Cashner + Vargas and you get Prado who can play 3B if Manny is moved.  

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

Better option, IMO.  Trade for Straily + Prado.  Trade for Danny Duffy.  Neither should have a huge prospect cost (Duffy would cost something significant, but not crippling due to fairly high salary).  For a similar cost to your idea, they get two pitchers I'd take over Cashner + Vargas and you get Prado who can play 3B if Manny is moved.  

Can you taking a guest at the deals that would be needed for Straily and Duffy?

[Luke-OH]

30 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Can you taking a guest at the deals that would be needed for Straily and Duffy?

Straily + Prado would be cheap, I initially suggested Rickard + Dietz when I came up with the idea at the beginning of the offseason.  I'd be fine adding another lower level prospect to that deal if necessary.

Duffy is making 4/60 over the remainder of his contract. I'm not sure how much more he'd get on the open market, but he'd probably get more years and a little more per year.  I think two 50 FV prospects should do it.  Two of the Stewart, Mullins, Scott, Akin.  Now the Royals might want a top 100 type prospect in return, if they pay some of Duffy's salary I could see including Mountcastle as the centerpiece. I might be overvaluing Duffy a little, because he isn't especially cheap, but he's only 29, a lefty, and coming off his best season, so the Orioles would have to outbid the other interested teams (which I'm sure exist).

If you really love the prospects I listed in the Duffy trade, another option would be Mancini for one of the Rockies young starters (not named Gray).  Depending on which one (Hoffman, Senzatela, Freeland, Anderson, or Marquez) the Orioles or the Rockies may need to add a piece to even the trade.

Edit: Now that I think about it, the Royals might have some interest in Mancini as well.  Not sure how deep they are going with their rebuild.

[wildcard]

13 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

Straily + Prado would be cheap, I initially suggested Rickard + Dietz when I came up with the idea at the beginning of the offseason.  I'd be fine adding another lower level prospect to that deal if necessary.

Duffy is making 4/60 over the remainder of his contract. I'm not sure how much more he'd get on the open market, but he'd probably get more years and a little more per year.  I think two 50 FV prospects should do it.  Two of the Stewart, Mullins, Scott, Akin.  Now the Royals might want a top 100 type prospect in return, if they pay some of Duffy's salary I could see including Mountcastle as the centerpiece. I might be overvaluing Duffy a little, because he isn't especially cheap, but he's only 29, a lefty, and coming off his best season, so the Orioles would have to outbid the other interested teams (which I'm sure exist).

If you really love the prospects I listed in the Duffy trade, another option would be Mancini for one of the Rockies young starters (not named Gray).  Depending on which one (Hoffman, Senzatela, Freeland, Anderson, or Marquez) the Orioles or the Rockies may need to add a piece to even the trade.

Dan has said he would not go 4 years on a pitcher.    I would probably not like what the Royals would want in prospects.  The Prado/Straily deal in interesting.   I would not  trade Mancini for a     pitching prospect when I can sign 2 FA pitchers.

[POR]

10 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

Straily + Prado would be cheap, I initially suggested Rickard + Dietz when I came up with the idea at the beginning of the offseason.  I'd be fine adding another lower level prospect to that deal if necessary.

Duffy is making 4/60 over the remainder of his contract. I'm not sure how much more he'd get on the open market, but he'd probably get more years and a little more per year.  I think two 50 FV prospects should do it.  Two of the Stewart, Mullins, Scott, Akin.  Now the Royals might want a top 100 type prospect in return, if they pay some of Duffy's salary I could see including Mountcastle as the centerpiece. I might be overvaluing Duffy a little, because he isn't especially cheap, but he's only 29, a lefty, and coming off his best season, so the Orioles would have to outbid the other interested teams (which I'm sure exist).

If you really love the prospects I listed in the Duffy trade, another option would be Mancini for one of the Rockies young starters (not named Gray).  Depending on which one (Hoffman, Senzatela, Freeland, Anderson, or Marquez) the Orioles or the Rockies may need to add a piece to even the trade.

Edit: Now that I think about it, the Royals might have some interest in Mancini as well.  Not sure how deep they are going with their rebuild.

You are way off on what it would take to trade for Danny Duffy.  I think it would be Hays, Harvey plus.  It may be why the Royal have not traded him yet and there seems to be little momentum to trade him at this point, but the Royals will want a kings ransom.    

[Luke-OH]

Just now, wildcard said:

Dan has said he would not go 4 years on a pitcher.    I would probably no like what the Royals would want in prospects.  The Prado/Straily deal in interesting.   I would not  trade Mancini for a  \pitching prospect when I can sign 2 FA pitchers.

Those Rockies pitchers have all MLB experience, Marquez, Anderson, and Freeland have had as much or more MLB success as Mancini.  

[Luke-OH]

1 minute ago, POR said:

You are way off on what it would take to trade for Danny Duffy.  I think it would be Hays, Harvey plus.  It may be why the Royal have not traded him yet and there seems to be little momentum to trade him at this point, but the Royals will want a kings ransom.    

You may be right, but he won't move then, he's not cheap and he's never pitched 180 innings in a season.

[wildcard]

5 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

Those Rockies pitchers have all MLB experience, Marquez, Anderson, and Freeland have had as much or more MLB success as Mancini.  

With Manny out of here sooner or later I want to keep Mancini.

[mdbdotcom]

This piece on Prado makes him sound like a very questionable acquisition with 2/28.5 left on his contract.

https://www.fishstripes.com/2017/10/21/16459334/2017-marlins-season-review-martin-prado-miami-marlins

[Luke-OH]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Someone else suggested something like this so it's not my idea.  Never happen and I known many on here are high on Gausman. I am not.  The Rockies are pretty deep in starters, many who have a little experience but are unproven.  Gausman is from Colorado.  A two for one is possible.  Gausman for Jeff Hoffman and Tyler Anderson.  Something as long those lines.  Both are cheap and controllable.  

That's a good idea, not the kind of trade teams generally make, but it'd make sense for both sides.

[POR]

17 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

You may be right, but he won't move then, he's not cheap and he's never pitched 180 innings in a season.

The Royals are not desperate to move Duffy.  Duffy is cheap in that he would probably get something like five years and 100 million on the open market.  Very similar to Alex Cobb and a year younger.

[Luke-OH]

7 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Agree with POR on Duffy.  Harvey would probably be a requirement in any trade plus more.  

Yeah, reading some Royals blogs, they think he's an ace.  That's probably not a fit.  I don't think I value him as highly as the Royals do, and I doubt the Orioles value him that highly as well.

[wildcard]

33 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Someone else suggested something like this so it's not my idea.  Never happen and I known many on here are high on Gausman. I am not.  The Rockies are pretty deep in starters, many who have a little experience but are unproven.  Gausman is from Colorado.  A two for one is possible.  Gausman for Jeff Hoffman and Tyler Anderson.  Something as long those lines.  Both are cheap and controllable.  

As much trouble as the Rockies have getting quality pitchers, why would they trade two 1st round pitchers for one.

[Aristotelian]

Those moves might get us over .500 but they still leave us with a bad rotation and other weaknesses (Davis/Trumbo, poor OF defense), and a bunch of guys ready to walk at the end of the season. I would much prefer a rebuild/retool scenario. Standing pat with some value veteran SP's seems like the worst of both worlds, not enough to make us truly competitive short term, while wasting the opportunity to improve long term. Yet this is probably exactly the path they will take, with Miguel being another possibility.