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Are some stats totally meaningless?

NewMarketSean

By NewMarketSean
in MLB

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mefogus Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

mefogus

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Stats like AVG and RBI?

Just wondering what people think about some stats that don't matter any more, or never really did.

Discuss.

I once created a stat as a kid called "RBI per HR" that I used in my video game playing. It was simply RBI divided by HR. For some reason I felt that this was a very interesting way to measure how productive a power hitter was. This was an utterly useless stat. I'm not sure that AVG is much better. Scratch that, both RBI per HR and AVG are extremely useful... in providing division practice to 7-year-olds.

-m

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mefogus Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

mefogus

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But really, there are no useless stats. Even AVG can tell you *something*. The problem lies in that it is valued too highly and often in exclusion of every other stat. AVG had its heyday when I was a kid, but it appears to be losing its reign as king of stats... probably because the baseball card market is in such a shambles.

-m

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GeorgiaBird Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

GeorgiaBird

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But really, there are no useless stats. Even AVG can tell you *something*. The problem lies in that it is valued too highly and often in exclusion of every other stat. AVG had its heyday when I was a kid, but it appears to be losing its reign as king of stats... probably because the baseball card market is in such a shambles.

-m

Exactly what I was going to say. There are no useless stats, just useless uses of stats. With any stat you have to ask yourself "what does this really tell me, and how important is what it tells me?"

Certainly many stats mentioned tell us less than others, and some are overrated because they are comfortable and everyone for generations have understood them. But don't hate the stats... hate the users.

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RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

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A K-State stats guy did his thesis on ID'ing MiL predictors of ML hitting success... he found 4 of them.

Three of them were equations with multiple factors.

The only one that was just a straight simple stat was AVG.

Not OBP or SLG or OPS, but AVG.

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Old#5fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Old#5fan

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A K-State stats guy did his thesis on ID'ing MiL predictors of ML hitting success... he found 4 of them.

Three of them were equations with multiple factors.

The only one that was just a straight simple stat was AVG.

Not OBP or SLG or OPS, but AVG.

To an old school baseball in its pure form proponent like myself, AVG is the single most important stat of all as far as an individual player. It is what they give a Batting Title for and it is the magic 400 target that is the toughest goal that is possible to achieve in sports. How any true baseball fan can say it isn't important is beyond belief?:confused::eek::(

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NewMarketSean Hangout Grand Counsel

NewMarketSean

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Not just "meaningful" but traditionally the essence of the individual player' offensive success. I see nothing in the sport to change that either.

It represents a large portion of a player's offensive ability but not all of it.

Taking walks... having a good eye... is a skill whether you like it or not. If it this wasn't the case, then everyone wouldn't walk at all. Average neglects this.

Average also doesn't factor in how many bases a player is able to touch with each hit too. Is a player who hits 50 singles better than a player who hits 15 singles and 20 doubles?

Average may not be useless but it should never be used as the main tool to gauge how good a player is IMO.

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Mackus Hangout Grand Counsel

Mackus

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A K-State stats guy did his thesis on ID'ing MiL predictors of ML hitting success... he found 4 of them.

Three of them were equations with multiple factors.

The only one that was just a straight simple stat was AVG.

Not OBP or SLG or OPS, but AVG.

Sure, for minor leagues being able to hit the ball is very important. For all the people who say that batting average and strikeouts aren't important, thats usually just talking about major leaguers.

For minor a leaguer to have low average and high K's is a very bad sign, because those problems usually just get worse as a guy climbs the ladder.

Once they are at the majors though, it doesn't really matter if they have a low average and high K's, as long as they overcome for those weaknesses. Adam Dunn's a great example.

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Mackus Hangout Grand Counsel

Mackus

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Average may not be useless but it should never be used as the main tool to gauge how good a player is IMO.
I don't think anybody other than OldFan is suggesting it should be. And that alone should tell you something.
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IamtheSkip AAA

IamtheSkip

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Average may not be useless but it should never be used as the main tool to gauge how good a player is IMO.

There is no ONE stat that should be used in such a light.

Stats are meant to be examined and analyzed as a whole.

Why do you think there are so many of them?

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