Birds Watcher: Schoop and Thursday (Schoop Signs for 8.5 Million)

[weams]

https://birdswatcher.com/2018/02/05/baltimore-orioles-jonathan-schoops-arbitration-hearing-set-for-thursday/

 

Quote

Jonathan Schoop – represented by The Legacy Agency – filed for a contract worth $9MM for the 2018 season. The Orioles countered that by offering $7.5MM.

According to MLBTradeRumors’ Arbitration Tracker, Schoop’s $1.5MM separation is the second largest contract indifference awaiting settlement.

The largest is Houston Astros’ outfielder, George Springer. He filed for $10.5MM, while the Astros countered at $8.5MM. Springer’s hearing is yet to be set, in case you were wondering.

 

 

[UpstateNYfan]

I am not sure how to figure Schoop out. Didn't he get some sort of advanced payout from some group based on projected future earnings? Not making it to Fanfest (on the advice of agent??). I think his chances of a long term contract with the O's is very unlikely and he will use the exit of his friend Manny as a reason. Love his arm, his tenacity around second base, his bat. Fielding ok but not spectacular. I like him, but some things about him are unsettling to me.

[Frobby]

It’s the second biggest differential remaining, but Mookie Betts’ differential was bigger than either of the two remaining cases, before he won his hearing last week.   So far, the players have won 5 of 7.    I hope the Schoop case settles.   

[weams]

6 minutes ago, UpstateNYfan said:

I am not sure how to figure Schoop out. Didn't he get some sort of advanced payout from some group based on projected future earnings? Not making it to Fanfest (on the advice of agent??). I think his chances of a long term contract with the O's is very unlikely and he will use the exit of his friend Manny as a reason. Love his arm, his tenacity around second base, his bat. Fielding ok but not spectacular. I like him, but some things about him are unsettling to me.

I think he has gotten bad financial advice. I believe gambling on beating the Orioles here is a sucker's bet. I assume the Oriole offer is 8.25+

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, weams said:

I think he has gotten bad financial advice. I believe gambling on beating the Orioles here is a sucker's bet. I assume the Oriole offer is 8.25+

I assume you mean their current offer, rather than the formal one that is proposed in the arbitration ($7.5 mm).    

Before the offers were exchanged, I had predicted that Schoop would make $8 mm this year, but MLBTR had predicted $9.1 mm.   It’s a pretty risky case for both sides.   

[weams]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I assume you mean their current offer, rather than the formal one that is proposed in the arbitration ($7.5 mm).    

Before the offers were exchanged, I had predicted that Schoop would make $8 mm this year, but MLBTR had predicted $9.1 mm.   It’s a pretty risky case for both sides.   

I do. I do. 

[wildcard]

Schoop made 3.475m last year.  So no matter what happens he has already won with a big raise.

I don't think the arbitration case has much to do with him signing long term.   He should be affordable and young .  The O's have not let those type of guys walk in the past.   I think  the O's sign him before he is a FA.

[UpstateNYfan]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

Schoop made 3.475m last year.  So no matter what happens he has already won with a big raise.

I don't think the arbitration case has much to do with him signing long term.   He should be affordable and young .  The O's have not let those type of guys walk in the past.   I think  the O's sign him before he is a FA.

I respect your opinion. I just don't see it. I believe he is likely to test the market.

[jsbearr]

From article:

"It’s also a no-brainer that Mamba is a solid second baseman. His Range Factor per game jumped from 4.47 in 2016 to 4.87 in 2017, and he was part of 132 double plays – 49 in the 6-4-3 style, 22 in the 5-4-3 method and 34 in the 4-6-3 format."

 

Oh, man. I don't think he quite understands the limits of range factor and maybe he does not exactly watch Schoop closely.  He is more or less a solid average second baseman whose athleticism is decreasing to the point where scouts wonder how long he can stay at second base.  He sits back far for a second baseman, has a strong arm, is heavily shifted.  It works very well, but there is that red line where his declining range and greater difficulty to get down on balls is going to cause him trouble.

[wildbillhiccup]

19 minutes ago, jsbearr said:

From article:

"It’s also a no-brainer that Mamba is a solid second baseman. His Range Factor per game jumped from 4.47 in 2016 to 4.87 in 2017, and he was part of 132 double plays – 49 in the 6-4-3 style, 22 in the 5-4-3 method and 34 in the 4-6-3 format."

 

Oh, man. I don't think he quite understands the limits of range factor and maybe he does not exactly watch Schoop closely.  He is more or less a solid average second baseman whose athleticism is decreasing to the point where scouts wonder how long he can stay at second base.  He sits back far for a second baseman, has a strong arm, is heavily shifted.  It works very well, but there is that red line where his declining range and greater difficulty to get down on balls is going to cause him trouble.

Agree with this ten fold. Long term I see Schoop projecting as a 3B. His power, reflexes, and athleticism would play well at that position. 

The irony is, the Orioles are probably looking for a Machado replacement (long term) and they already have one. 

[foxfield]

5 hours ago, weams said:

I think he has gotten bad financial advice. I believe gambling on beating the Orioles here is a sucker's bet. I assume the Oriole offer is 8.25+

Whether the financial advice Schoop has received is beneficial to him or not, I feel sorry for him as the advice seems more designed to benefit others than him.  As he is paying for that advice, by definition it is bad.  Perhaps I am really naive, but if Schoop needed a loan, I would think his agent could and would have advised him in a way that procured funds without costing 10%.  Not 10% interest but 10% of his future earnings.  

I spent my banking career advising high net worth clients and what Schoop did, or in my opinion what was done to him, was neither revolutionary nor beneficial.  I do not have any idea if the folks that advised and put that together were the same folks that advised him to skip fanfest, but it's a shame and he should seek relief from that contractual deal.  IMHO.

For those who are unfamiliar with Fantex, the company that purchased 10% of Schoop, has done so from other athletes across sports.  However, this "investment" was questionable regardless of whether or not it was smart.  And if Schoop is "paying" for advice,  it would seem he was sold short.

In other words, yes, I think he got bad advice and has for years...and while he has to be accountable for his decisions, it is  pity that so many athletes do not get better advice.

 

[jsbearr]

1 minute ago, foxfield said:

Whether the financial advice Schoop has received is beneficial to him or not.  I feel sorry for him as the advice seems more inclined to benefit others than him.  As he is paying for that advice, by definition it is bad.  Perhaps I am really naive, but if Schoop needed a loan, I would think his agent could and would have advised him in a way that procured funds without costing 10%.  Not 10% interest but 10% of his future earnings.  

I spent my banking career advising high net worth clients and what Schoop did, or in my opinion what was done to him, was neither revolutionary nor beneficial.  I do not have any idea if the folks that advised and put that together were the same folks that advised him to skip fanfest, but it's a shame and he should seek relief from that contractual deal.  IMHO.

For those who are unfamiliar with Fantex, the company that purchased 10% of Schoop, has done so from other athletes across sports.  However, this "investment" was questionable regardless of whether or not it was smart.  And if Schoop is "paying" for advice,  it would seem he was sold short.

In other words, yes, I think he got bad advice and has for years...and while he has to be accountable for his decisions, it is  pity that so many athletes do not get better advice.

 

At the moment, it looks like all the deals for baseball players when Schoop signed would be a net loss if not for Schoop. Franco took a similar deal and it probably winds up being a great decision for him.  McHugh might bring them a bunch of money that his elbow might be trashed soon.  Duffey looks bad. Solarte maybe breaks them even, but I doubt it.

[weams]

Quote

The Astros have agreed to a two-year, $24MM contract with outfielder George Springer, reports Bob Nightengale of USA Today (via Twitter). Springer, a Super Two player who was in his second trip through the arbitration process, will earn $12MM in each year of the deal. Springer is represented by the Legacy Agency.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/02/astros-george-springer-extension-two-years.html

[foxfield]

23 minutes ago, jsbearr said:

At the moment, it looks like all the deals for baseball players when Schoop signed would be a net loss if not for Schoop. Franco took a similar deal and it probably winds up being a great decision for him.  McHugh might bring them a bunch of money that his elbow might be trashed soon.  Duffey looks bad. Solarte maybe breaks them even, but I doubt it.

My premise was not whether the deal actually worked or not.  My premise was Schoop needed a loan and his advisors sold him an annuity.  That annuity may or may not pay out at or above market rates.  But the advisor had many tools to provide services to Jonathan and "sold" not what provided the best upside to the seller or buyer not to Schoop.  That happens all the time from Car Mechanics to Wall Street.  But it is the definition of poor service and again, in my opinion, the people that "pushed" that should be ashamed and exposed.

[weams]

1 hour ago, jsbearr said:

From article:

"It’s also a no-brainer that Mamba is a solid second baseman. His Range Factor per game jumped from 4.47 in 2016 to 4.87 in 2017, and he was part of 132 double plays – 49 in the 6-4-3 style, 22 in the 5-4-3 method and 34 in the 4-6-3 format."

 

Oh, man. I don't think he quite understands the limits of range factor and maybe he does not exactly watch Schoop closely.  He is more or less a solid average second baseman whose athleticism is decreasing to the point where scouts wonder how long he can stay at second base.  He sits back far for a second baseman, has a strong arm, is heavily shifted.  It works very well, but there is that red line where his declining range and greater difficulty to get down on balls is going to cause him trouble.

I agree. The FWAR last year was an anomaly. And I still don't trust any defensive metrics.