Rowell's demeanor tonight

[Sports Guy]

I find it hilarious that OldFan is crying about cockiness yet he supports Troy Smith who, by all accounts, thinks he is owed something and his teammates have been very turned off by him.

Yet, we never hear anything like that about Boller.

But i guess if he is against someone, he finds anything to complain about.

BTW, Oldfan, i guess you hated BJ Surhoff right? He used to throw bats, get pissed off and stuff like that EVERY GAME.

[Old#5fan]

Of course it does. Third hand information is always 100 percent accurate.

Well you cannot just rule it out either. Frobby posted further down in this thread that he saw him not hustle to the outfield to chase a ball he knocked down, instead making the outfielder come all the way in which allowed the base runners to move up. That seems to contradict the "he works hard all the time mantra" you heard. Granted it is just one play but it is what it is. I certainly am not writing this kid off but it sure seems like he would benefit from an older major leaguer (veteran or retired player) setting down with him and giving him some finer points on his attitude and approach. This may or may not be a big deal in this kid's development, but it certainly could be.

[Old#5fan]

I find it hilarious that OldFan is crying about cockiness yet he supports Troy Smith who, by all accounts, thinks he is owed something and his teammates have been very turned off by him.

I heard his teammates like Smith as he brings a confidence and swagger to the QB position which has been lacking during the "lost Boller years."[/I]

Yet, we never hear anything like that about Boller. (For good reason he absolutely is the least justified player on the Ravens over his entire career to have anything remotely to be cocky about - he's a bust).

But i guess if he is against someone, he finds anything to complain about.

BTW, Oldfan, i guess you hated BJ Surhoff right? He used to throw bats, get pissed off and stuff like that EVERY GAME.

No, I liked Surhoff. However, if he did that at the low minor league level, well before he became an established ML player and a good one, I probably would not have liked him so much.

[Sports Guy]

No, I liked Surhoff. However, if he did that at the low minor league level, well before he became an established ML player and a good one, I probably would not have liked him so much.

Sorry but you are showing your true colors.

Bottom line is if you like a player, you ignore the faults...if you dislike a player, you have an issue with the same things you ignore for the other guys.

You are basically a hypocrit(sp?) when it comes to this stuff...You are totally inconsistent on all of this stuff.

But then again, you are the one who said Scott would hit 14 homers despite what previous stats told you and you never actually watching him play. So, you haven't seen anything from Rowell yourself and have no idea what really happened or anything like that yet you are willing to make a snap judgement on him despite hearing, IN THIS THREAD, that he has a very good work ethic and is well liked by his teammates.

BTW, i guess you hated Mussina and Bedard.

[JTrea81]

All I can say is look at Matt Riley. He finally made it to the show but it took Tommy John surgery to realize what he was taking for granted. The kid thought he was guaranteed a ML career. He made it, but not before being reminded how lucky he was to be where he is...

Rowell strikes me as having a similar personality.

He even said he expected to be in the HOF when he was 18 years old. Unless Rowell somehow has an attitude adjustment (hopfeully not injury related), I just don't see him making it and sticking. let alone being a HOFer with that attitude.

Couple that with the fact he's not hitting LHP at all now for two seasons makes me very skeptical. I think a lot of people overrate Rowell here and even though he's 19, the expectations of 19 year olds (especially 1st round picks) has gone up because the overall talent at that age is better.

When you have guys like Adam Jones in the majors at age 21, that's what you expect from first round draft picks.

[J.D.]

All I can say is look at Matt Riley. He finally made it to the show but it took Tommy John surgery to realize what he was taking for granted. The kid thought he was guaranteed a ML career. He made it, but not before being reminded how lucky he was to be where he is...

Rowell strikes me as having a similar personality.

He even said he expected to be in the HOF when he was 18 years old. Unless Rowell somehow has an attitude adjustment (hopfeully not injury related), I just don't see him making it and sticking. let alone being a HOFer with that attitude.

Cause guys with bad attitudes NEVER make it. I guess that Barry Bonds guy was absolutely awful.

[Frobby]

Well you cannot just rule it out either. Frobby posted further down in this thread that he saw him not hustle to the outfield to chase a ball he knocked down, instead making the outfielder come all the way in which allowed the base runners to move up. That seems to contradict the "he works hard all the time mantra" you heard. Granted it is just one play but it is what it is. I certainly am not writing this kid off but it sure seems like he would benefit from an older major leaguer (veteran or retired player) setting down with him and giving him some finer points on his attitude and approach. This may or may not be a big deal in this kid's development, but it certainly could be.

Now that you've restated your position somewhat, I agree with you. By the way, the game where I watched Rowell not hustle after that ball was the first game of a doubleheader. Rowell sat out the second game. I don't know whether that was planned in advance, or a response to Rowell's lack of hustle on that play. If it was the latter, then I applaud the manager for it.

I'm still pretty confident Rowell will be a good major league player, but that's not to say he doesn't have some lessons to learn along the way. As I said, he's only 19, and he's got got time to mature both physically and emotionally. Despite the play I saw, I still believe that he is considered to be a hard worker overall. I've read plenty of reports by Doc Shorebird and Tony to that effect.

[Sports Guy]

All I can say is look at Matt Riley. He finally made it to the show but it took Tommy John surgery to realize what he was taking for granted. The kid thought he was guaranteed a ML career. He made it, but not before being reminded how lucky he was to be where he is...

Rowell strikes me as having a similar personality.

He even said he expected to be in the HOF when he was 18 years old. Unless Rowell somehow has an attitude adjustment (hopfeully not injury related), I just don't see him making it and sticking. let alone being a HOFer with that attitude.

Couple that with the fact he's not hitting LHP at all now for two seasons makes me very skeptical. I think a lot of people overrate Rowell here and even though he's 19, the expectations of 19 year olds has gone up because the overall talent at that age is better.

LOL...This is freakin hilarious...Please keep em coming!

[JTrea81]

LOL...This is freakin hilarious...Please keep em coming!

Tell me why are you so sure Rowell will make it to the majors. What has he shown in the past two seasons that shows he's got the talent alone to make it? He's shown power, but that's about it. He strikes out too much, doesn't walk enough, and can't hit LHP. This year his power #'s have been down as well.

[bryanman8]

I don't care about "attitude." He can be the cockiest person in the dang world, be a complete jerk to reporters and teammates, whatever.

All I care about is work ethic. I know some guys have gotten through on just their talent despite not working very hard at all, but that's by far the exception rather than the rule.

Barry Bonds could be said to have the worst attitude in the entire world but (although he did have the addition of steriods) he by all accounts has always worked his rear end off in the weight room as well and is one of the most focused players in MLB history.

What's Rowell's work ethic like? You can say he's cocky but does he put in the hours in the weight room to back it up? Does he study other pitchers? Is he always the first one out and the last to leave?

If the "cockiness" is just being mistaken for seeing him not work hard at all, then I'd agree with the OP that there is some reason to be seriously concerned about him and if he will be able to carness his considerable talent.

If it's just cockiness but he works incredibly hard and keeps on hitting to back it up, then I have no problem with it.

[Flosman]

All I can say is look at Matt Riley. He finally made it to the show but it took Tommy John surgery to realize what he was taking for granted. The kid thought he was guaranteed a ML career. He made it, but not before being reminded how lucky he was to be where he is...

Rowell strikes me as having a similar personality.

He even said he expected to be in the HOF when he was 18 years old. Unless Rowell somehow has an attitude adjustment (hopfeully not injury related), I just don't see him making it and sticking. let alone being a HOFer with that attitude.

Couple that with the fact he's not hitting LHP at all now for two seasons makes me very skeptical. I think a lot of people overrate Rowell here and even though he's 19, the expectations of 19 year olds (especially 1st round picks) has gone up because the overall talent at that age is better.

When you have guys like Adam Jones in the majors at age 21, that's what you expect from first round draft picks.

What I take from this post is that pitchers would not have to undergo TJS if they had a better attitude?:scratchchinhmm:

Hitting a baseball well has alot to do with confidence. He seems to have that. While he MIGHT have to be riened in from time to time that is the job of the managers that have him on his team, thankfully us message board GMs don't have much to say about it.

[LookinUp]

This entire thread has left a bad taste in my mouth. I happen to think that more than 2 people have looked bad.

[Mackus]

All I can say is look at Matt Riley. He finally made it to the show but it took Tommy John surgery to realize what he was taking for granted. The kid thought he was guaranteed a ML career. He made it, but not before being reminded how lucky he was to be where he is...

Riley bombed because he couldn't stay healthy, not because of his cocky attitude. Do you really think a little humility while he was blowing away AA at 20 y/o would have prevented the ligaments in his elbow from blowing up?

A very cocky attitude can be a turnoff, and a humble guy like Adam Jones is certainly refreshing to see, but as long as that cockiness or humility doesn't effect a player's work ethic or drive, it really doesn't matter.

Something like this can easily make somebody easier or harder to root for, but it doesn't really change the odds of them making it or not. If a guy is an ass, he's an ass. But he's gonna make it or not based on his talent level, his passion, and his work ethic, not whether or not he's a nice guy or not.

[Why Not?]

By the way, I've talked with Rowell a few times and have never found him to be a jerk. I've heard the stories about him in the past, but I've also heard that he gets along well with his current teammates.

I've never spoken to Rowell and it's very possible he's getting along very well with the guys in Frederick. But he definitly wore out his welcome in Delmarva. Perhaps it was just a personality clash and indicative of nothing. But there was friction there.

[Mackus]

I don't care about "attitude." He can be the cockiest person in the dang world, be a complete jerk to reporters and teammates, whatever.

All I care about is work ethic. I know some guys have gotten through on just their talent despite not working very hard at all, but that's by far the exception rather than the rule.

Barry Bonds could be said to have the worst attitude in the entire world but (although he did have the addition of steriods) he by all accounts has always worked his rear end off in the weight room as well and is one of the most focused players in MLB history.

What's Rowell's work ethic like? You can say he's cocky but does he put in the hours in the weight room to back it up? Does he study other pitchers? Is he always the first one out and the last to leave?

If the "cockiness" is just being mistaken for seeing him not work hard at all, then I'd agree with the OP that there is some reason to be seriously concerned about him and if he will be able to carness his considerable talent.

If it's just cockiness but he works incredibly hard and keeps on hitting to back it up, then I have no problem with it.

Great post, Bryan.

Only think I'd change is that I do care about attitude. I'd much rather every player have the attitude and approach that guys like Adam Jones and Luke Scott seem to have. Those guys are just enjoyable to root for. But, it doesn't make any difference as to their chances of making it or their raw abilities.

So if I can choose, I'd rather the guy have a great attitude, they're just more fun to root for that way. But in terms of it having an impact on their prospect status or on-field performance, I agree that work ethic is a much better indicator.