Cashner signing

[clapdiddy]

2 minutes ago, Horsepower said:

I think this is a good start.  My pipe dream from here would be to sign Lynn and trade for McHugh (either Bach or Givens)

 

Lynn, Gausman, Bundy, McHugh, and Cashner..............I can support that

Would have to be Brach.   4 years of Givens> 2 years of McHugh.

[Beef Supreme]

11 hours ago, Frobby said:

There is no way we could have gone back to Ubaldo or Miley.    Even if Cashner does not turn out to do any better.   Hopefully, he’ll at least do significantly better than Ubaldo or Miley did last year.   If he does that, I really won’t care if Miley puts up better numbers in Milwaukee or Ubaldo wherever he is (if anywhere).

This is exactly right. The management knows that the fans would be in an uproar.

Still, there is an outside shot that the team could entertain bringing back Hellickson. Fans have not built up the same level of resentment against him.

And I think it is likely that Tillman -- who was worse than all of those three pitchers -- will sign with the Orioles. Personnel decisions often consider elements beyond statistics.

[theobird]

I am not going to complain about the addition of Cashner, especially with the contract that we signed him to. I think he makes a nice innings eating #4 starter and I think his GB tendencies plays well in our ballpark.  It isn't over yet, maybe the Orioles can still find the #3 starter that they need. If so, they may have an outside shot at a wildcard, which is apparently the FO's dream.

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, theobird said:

I am not going to complain about the addition of Cashner, especially with the contract that we signed him to. I think he makes a nice innings eating #4 starter and I think his GB tendencies plays well in our ballpark.  It isn't over yet, maybe the Orioles can still find the #3 starter that they need. If so, they may have an outside shot at a wildcard, which is apparently the FO's dream.

The nice thing about the wildcard slot.

Once you get into the playoffs, the w-l records are all reset, and wildcard can and do win the WS Trophy.

[Just Regular]

12 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

Would have to be Brach.   4 years of Givens> 2 years of McHugh.

The Orioles could arcanely argue to the Astros that McHugh's best service to them in 2018 is helping the Orioles win a couple extra games against the Yankees and maybe Red Sox in the race for playoffs HFA.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, cimota said:

You would have hated Scott Mcgregor.  Never struck out 5 guys per nine innings in a season in his career. 

I probably saw 100 Scott McGregor starts either in person or on TV.  I grew up with Scott McGregor in the rotation.  I used to play catch in the back yard doing a windup where I looped my hands over my knee like Scott McGregor and then threw across my body.  That may be part of the reason my should hurts right now...

But Scott McGregor was from a different era, the 1980s strikeout minima, where Ks/9 fell below 5.0 for the first time since the 1950s.  He was backed by a very good defense and a solid offense, and he was very good.  But as soon as the game started to change a little, power went up, Ks went up... he was basically done as an effective pitcher at 30.  1987 looks more like today than any other year in his career, and even though he was just 33 he had a 6.64 ERA.

[clapdiddy]

24 minutes ago, OrioleDog said:

The Orioles could arcanely argue to the Astros that McHugh's best service to them in 2018 is helping the Orioles win a couple extra games against the Yankees and maybe Red Sox in the race for playoffs HFA.

I can see that argument, but I hope the Orioles look more at the big picture.   I'd rather throw money at another "innings-eater" than trade Givens at this point.

[ThomasTomasz]

2 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

I can see that argument, but I hope the Orioles look more at the big picture.   I'd rather throw money at another "innings-eater" than trade Givens at this point.

Givens is the only legitimate 7-8-9 inning arm left after this season.  Britton and Brach are hitting FA, and O'Day is as well and he's borderline for that kind of role right now.  They can't give him up without getting a much better piece in return than McHugh, who is just spare parts for Houston right now. 

[interloper]

Just now, ThomasTomasz said:

Givens is the only legitimate 7-8-9 inning arm left after this season.  Britton and Brach are hitting FA, and O'Day is as well and he's borderline for that kind of role right now.  They can't give him up without getting a much better piece in return than McHugh, who is just spare parts for Houston right now. 

I agree. I don't think the Orioles can afford to trade anyone from their ML bullpen at this stage if they hope to be competitive this year. With a healthy Britton, sure, but now? Nah. 

[Beef Supreme]

9 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I probably saw 100 Scott McGregor starts either in person or on TV.  I grew up with Scott McGregor in the rotation.  I used to play catch in the back yard doing a windup where I looped my hands over my knee like Scott McGregor and then threw across my body.  That may be part of the reason my should hurts right now...

But Scott McGregor was from a different era, the 1980s strikeout minima, where Ks/9 fell below 5.0 for the first time since the 1950s.  He was backed by a very good defense and a solid offense, and he was very good.  But as soon as the game started to change a little, power went up, Ks went up... he was basically done as an effective pitcher at 30.  1987 looks more like today than any other year in his career, and even though he was just 33 he had a 6.64 ERA.

I would bet his ERA rose as his 88 mph fastball dipped to 85 - 86. League offensive statistics did not rise as much as McGregor's ERA did.

[NCRaven]

16 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

It's usually much simpler than we all make it out to be. If they were going to go cheap, Garcia should have been one of their primary targets. I would have been a lot more comfortable with a two year deal for him then Cashner. Even if he didn't want to pitch here I seriously doubt he'd accept a 1 year deal over a 2 year deal. 

Mike Friers accepted a one-year offer from another team over a 2-year offer from the Orioles just a couple of months ago.

[bobmc]

2 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

There have been seven pitchers in the last five years who had a K rate under 5.00, and qualified for the ERA title.

Kevin Correia, 2013.  In 2014 he posted a 5.44 ERA, and in 2015 he pitched the last 23 innings of his career.
Jeremy Guthrie, 2013.  In 2014 he actually upped his K rate and had a better year.  In 2015 his ERA was 5.95 and his career essentially ended.
Martin Perez, 2016.  In 2017 he had a 4.82 ERA.
Cashner, Perez' teammate.
Ty Blach, 2017.  Obviously we don't know about 2018 yet. In '17 he had a 4.78 ERA, good for a 87 ERA+.
Mark Buehrle, 2015.  Retired after the season.
Mike Pelfrey, 2015.  In the following two years he combined to throw 239 innings to a 5.50.

"Ground ball pitcher" is a descriptive term, not a quality measurement.

This, my friends, is why I choose to "pay the big bucks" for my Plus membership!  

[Beef Supreme]

1 minute ago, Redskins Rick said:

I have concerns about how well this would play out.

But, I am not going to throw stones at something that hasn't happen yet.

Just because he is a player, automatically mean he can't be a GM.

How do other GM get their first GM job, they don't just wake up and now you are a GM?

 

Right, there are plenty of GMs now that do not have the experience that GMs 30 years ago had. Brady's lack of experience should not be the focus of his ability or inability to do the job.

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, NCRaven said:

Mike Friers accepted a one-year offer from another team over a 2-year offer from the Orioles just a couple of months ago.

Friers isn't exactly a top 10 FA SP, either.

MLBTR says that no other team tendered him a deal, so thats why he signed with the Tigers.

[spiritof66]

28 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I probably saw 100 Scott McGregor starts either in person or on TV.  I grew up with Scott McGregor in the rotation.  I used to play catch in the back yard doing a windup where I looped my hands over my knee like Scott McGregor and then threw across my body.  That may be part of the reason my should hurts right now...

But Scott McGregor was from a different era, the 1980s strikeout minima, where Ks/9 fell below 5.0 for the first time since the 1950s.  He was backed by a very good defense and a solid offense, and he was very good.  But as soon as the game started to change a little, power went up, Ks went up... he was basically done as an effective pitcher at 30.  1987 looks more like today than any other year in his career, and even though he was just 33 he had a 6.64 ERA.

I agree, but I think that if McGregor had come up in today's environment he might well have found a way to be successful.

Here's a pretty good game Scott pitched in October 1983, letting up no runs on 5 hits, with 6 Ks. 

https://www.youtube.com/watc