NEED one of the Big Three Pitchers Left

[Bahama O's Fan]

I see no reason why we can't offer that 3/39 deal. If needed, backload it when a ton of money comes off the books next season. Next season your starters are:

Bundy, Gausman, Cobb, Cashner, Harvey?

[tntoriole]

9 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

I don't want to digress into a lengthy discussion of myth and reality concerning Ty Cobb, but  . . . 

I first read about this glib remark as a young baseball fan, probably in the early 1960s, which would have been within five years or so after it supposedly was made. (Cobb was born in 1886 and died in 1961 at age 74. The versions I' can recall hearing put Cobb at 70 or "almost 70" years old.)

But every version I can recall hearings has another long-retired ballplayer other than Cobb  (sometimes a Hall of Famer at some gathering in Cooperstown) making the joke. I'm pretty sure I've seen it attributed to Charlie Gehringer, and here is a 1985 Sports Illustrated article citing Lefty O'Doul (who's in the Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame, but not the one in upstate New York). 

 https://www.si.com/vault/1985/04/15/622346/look-out-ty-cobb

I don't recall ever reading that Cobb made a remark like this about himself. I think the 1994 Tommy Lee Jones film, as a matter of plot convenience or character assassination (or both), had Cobb say it. Is there any reputable source that says Cobb himself boasted about his ability to hit major league pitchers in the 1950s? If so, I'd like to see it. Thanks in advance.

You may be right.  It could be apocryphal.  And I agree that Al Stumpf and the movie were all drivel.   However, here is an interesting collection from the Hall of Fame of his letters and his attitude towards modern players was very negative and critical and insulting in tone....so the sentiment of the joke would likely fit with his attitude.  It was also clear that he was very much disliked by many of his contemporaries.

https://baseballhall.org/discover-more/stories/short-stops/letters-from-ty-cobb

[atomic]

1 hour ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

I see no reason why we can't offer that 3/39 deal. If needed, backload it when a ton of money comes off the books next season. Next season your starters are:

Bundy, Gausman, Cobb, Cashner, Harvey?

Yeah and that is why I don't understand the blow it up mentality on here.  We lose Machado, Jones, and Britton.  But we have young guys coming up to play in the field and we might be able to get Jones and Britton back.  We have some good young pitchers and good young position players no need to be as pessimistic as people have been on here.

[Yardball85]

12 minutes ago, atomic said:

Yeah and that is why I don't understand the blow it up mentality on here.  We lose Machado, Jones, and Britton.  But we have young guys coming up to play in the field and we might be able to get Jones and Britton back.  We have some good young pitchers and good young position players no need to be as pessimistic as people have been on here.

That is EXACTLY the mentality behind the blow it up crowd (I am in the either sign Cobb and go for it or blow it up crowd).  Blowing it up means trading everyone except the good young pitchers and position players under control.  It means trading Machado, Schoop, Britton, and Jones to supplement the good young pitchers and good young position players.

Would you rather have Hays, Mancini, Mountcastle, Mullins, Harvey, Bundy, etc. with or without other young, controllable talent surrounding them?

[El Gordo]

19 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

That is EXACTLY the mentality behind the blow it up crowd (I am in the either sign Cobb and go for it or blow it up crowd).  Blowing it up means trading everyone except the good young pitchers and position players under control.  It means trading Machado, Schoop, Britton, and Jones to supplement the good young pitchers and good young position players.

Would you rather have Hays, Mancini, Mountcastle, Mullins, Harvey, Bundy, etc. with or without other young, controllable talent surrounding them?

You blow it up if you think you need 5 years to rebuild. If you have a bevy of young OF, C's,  bullpen arms, and a rotation of Gausman, Bundy, Cobb, Cashner, and Harvey. you retool.

[Yardball85]

4 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

You blow it up if you think you need 5 years to rebuild. If you have a bevy of young OF, C's,  bullpen arms, and a rotation of Gausman, Bundy, Cobb, Cashner, and Harvey. you retool.

I disagree.  Maybe we have different definitions of blowing it up.  I would trade Manny, Britton, and probably Schoop so you can have a solid core for the years you have Hays, Mancini, Mullins, etc.

Also, I said I would either sign Cobb or blow it up. Not both.

[TheDeau52]

1 hour ago, El Gordo said:

You blow it up if you think you need 5 years to rebuild. If you have a bevy of young OF, C's,  bullpen arms, and a rotation of Gausman, Bundy, Cobb, Cashner, and Harvey. you retool.

Exactly.

[NJOriolesFan]

I agree that Cobb should be signed at $13 per year.  It would put us at $148 million.  Right now we are 16th in the league in team salary (completely average).  Average team salary is $137 million and in the AL East it is $156 million and we are fourth in salary in the division.  We need to be at least higher than the league average and likely higher than the division average to compete in the coming years.

So, yes a rotation in 2019 of Cobb, Bundy, Gausman, Harvey and Cashner would be great.

Our bullpen is solid even if we trade Britton and let O'Day walk after this year.  Although we would likely need to sign an arm for depth.

With young catchers and young outfielders if we can jettison Trumbo and either trade Jones (not likely) or resign him at a team friendly deal, why can't we extend Machado ($28 million) and Schoop ($20 million).  Our team salary still would be $172 (before arbitration) even if we were forced to keep (Jones, Trumbo, O'Day and Britton).  Trade any amount of those guys to take care of arbitration for other guys.  Heck, if you get somebody to give us anything for Trumbo and O'Day, we could use that on arb increases and still bring back Britton and Jones (lower salary on Jones)

 

[Ripken]

So we're debating blowing it up versus rebuilding versus retooling?

They all mean pretty much the same thing with regard to this team; trade the vets that won't be here (or shouldn't be here) beyond this season.  If Manny, Britton, Brach, and Jones aren't coming back then trade them for young talent that might contribute to future Oriole teams.  [Note: I think it's a terrible idea to bring Jones back]  Schoop can be added to that discussion depending on those internal extension talks as well.  And guys like Davis, Trumbo, and O'Day should be dealt if possible because we're paying them [far] more than they are worth. 

I'd love a Bundy, Gausman, Harvey, Cobb, and Cashner rotation next year with a young bullpen and young position players everywhere, especially if we add a great young arm and bat to the mix.

[wildbillhiccup]

27 minutes ago, NJOriolesFan said:

I agree that Cobb should be signed at $13 per year.  It would put us at $148 million.  Right now we are 16th in the league in team salary (completely average).  Average team salary is $137 million and in the AL East it is $156 million and we are fourth in salary in the division.  We need to be at least higher than the league average and likely higher than the division average to compete in the coming years.

So, yes a rotation in 2019 of Cobb, Bundy, Gausman, Harvey and Cashner would be great.

Our bullpen is solid even if we trade Britton and let O'Day walk after this year.  Although we would likely need to sign an arm for depth.

With young catchers and young outfielders if we can jettison Trumbo and either trade Jones (not likely) or resign him at a team friendly deal, why can't we extend Machado ($28 million) and Schoop ($20 million).  Our team salary still would be $172 (before arbitration) even if we were forced to keep (Jones, Trumbo, O'Day and Britton).  Trade any amount of those guys to take care of arbitration for other guys.  Heck, if you get somebody to give us anything for Trumbo and O'Day, we could use that on arb increases and still bring back Britton and Jones (lower salary on Jones)

 

...because they don't want to play here. Machado wants his name in lights (i.e., bigger market / city) and Schoop's only ties to Baltimore are Machado. Also, I hereby forbid anyone from using the words "trade" (or any synonyms) and "Trumbo" in the same sentence. It's never happening. Not in our hypothetical worlds and definitely not in the real world. 

Trading O'Day (and Britton) makes sense. Extending Jones probably doesn't, because he's publicly said he wants to play for a winner (we'll always be the bride's maid in the AL East). 

[Teddy OBP]

3 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

I see no reason why we can't offer that 3/39 deal. If needed, backload it when a ton of money comes off the books next season. Next season your starters are:

Bundy, Gausman, Cobb, Cashner, Harvey?

3/39 would be a deal IMO.  I'd go 15M per to make sure we got him.  If he ends up pitching well it's a bargain.  If he sucks after year one, the $6M isn't going to be the end of the world.  They need to make it happen.

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

...because they don't want to play here. Machado wants his name in lights (i.e., bigger market / city) and Schoop's only ties to Baltimore are Machado. 

That is your opinion, and it’s based on basically nothing.   I’m not saying those guys want to play here — but you have no idea if they do or not.    It’s probably a moot point because the Orioles seem very reluctant to initiate discussions with either one of them.   When they sign elsewhere, I’ll put the blame squarely on the team, and not excuse it on the basis that the players didn’t want to be here.  

[atomic]

3 hours ago, Yardball85 said:

That is EXACTLY the mentality behind the blow it up crowd (I am in the either sign Cobb and go for it or blow it up crowd).  Blowing it up means trading everyone except the good young pitchers and position players under control.  It means trading Machado, Schoop, Britton, and Jones to supplement the good young pitchers and good young position players.

Would you rather have Hays, Mancini, Mountcastle, Mullins, Harvey, Bundy, etc. with or without other young, controllable talent surrounding them?

Britton has zero trade value right now. 

[twinedenter]

3 hours ago, El Gordo said:

You blow it up if you think you need 5 years to rebuild. If you have a bevy of young OF, C's,  bullpen arms, and a rotation of Gausman, Bundy, Cobb, Cashner, and Harvey. you retool.

Although I totally agree with you Gordo:

In order to "retool" however, you need to supplement with trades or free agency. You don't sign a collection of AAAA's and never-were's. That is exactly what this organization has done. 

IF your not willing to sign quality free agents, you have to bite the bullet and trade a player that is a good young player, but not that building block guy. Ala Schoop, as opposed to Manny.

The O's have done neither of these and that's why we are where we are and staring at season 2, of a another potential long losing streak.

Some call this "Playing the middle".

[Yardball85]

32 minutes ago, atomic said:

Britton has zero trade value right now. 

He had trade value last year at the deadline when they didn't move him.  He may have trade value at this year's trade deadline.  Obviously you don't trade him now.