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bryanman8

By bryanman8
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bryanman8 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

bryanman8

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The reliever in the 8th... the one who came in after the go-ahead run scored gets a save.

100% sure? I've heard ten different opinions on this lol. Need somebody who can maybe provide a box score and guarantee they're correct.

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bryanman8 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

bryanman8

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In that case though it's the home team, as in Johnson pitched the 8th, then in the bottom of the 8th his team scored, then held on in the top of the ninth.

this situation, the away team wins...let's say Johnson pitches the bottom of the 8th and after it we're down 5-4. then in the top of the ninth we score 2 to go ahead 6-5. bottom of the 9th sherrill comes on and doesnt give up a run.

win to johnson, save to sherrill? for what its worth i'm on your side, but i can see how it is a different scenario depending on home/away.

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Cokeman Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Cokeman

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100% sure? I've heard ten different opinions on this lol. Need somebody who can maybe provide a box score and guarantee they're correct.

Seems pretty simple to me. The pitcher who is pitching the bottom of the 9th inning wasn't even in the game when the winning run scored...so how could he get the win?

The 8th inning pitcher gets the win, the 9th inning pitcher gets the save.

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orayole Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

orayole

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In that case though it's the home team, as in Johnson pitched the 8th, then in the bottom of the 8th his team scored, then held on in the top of the ninth.

this situation, the away team wins...let's say Johnson pitches the bottom of the 8th and after it we're down 5-4. then in the top of the ninth we score 2 to go ahead 6-5. bottom of the 9th sherrill comes on and doesnt give up a run.

win to johnson, save to sherrill? for what its worth i'm on your side, but i can see how it is a different scenario depending on home/away.

Whoever was the last to pitch when the go ahead run is scored gets the win. Then the last person to pitch gets the save.

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Mackus Hangout Grand Counsel

Mackus

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In that case though it's the home team, as in Johnson pitched the 8th, then in the bottom of the 8th his team scored, then held on in the top of the ninth.

this situation, the away team wins...let's say Johnson pitches the bottom of the 8th and after it we're down 5-4. then in the top of the ninth we score 2 to go ahead 6-5. bottom of the 9th sherrill comes on and doesnt give up a run.

win to johnson, save to sherrill? for what its worth i'm on your side, but i can see how it is a different scenario depending on home/away.

Is this a debate over the rules or how it should be? If its the rules, then there really isn't any debate. Its obviously the guy pitching the 8th. Whichever pitcher got the most recent out when the lead is taken is the pitcher of record.

There can be exceptions, but only when the "pitcher that got the most recent out" didn't do anything to help his team. I can remember this happening once, I think in 2004. One of our crappy relievers du jour (DeJean?) came in and sucked it up. He gave up hits to 2-3 batters and blew our lead, but the final batter he faced laced an RBI double but got thrown out trying to stretch it to a triple or something like that. So he didn't really get anybody out, he gave up multiple hits and runs and the only "out" he got was on the bases. Rodrigo Lopez came in after the O's took the lead to pitch a scoreless 8th, and then Ryan or Julio or someone got the save. The pitcher or record was technically DeJean, but since he was ineffective, the official scorer gave the win to Rodrigo. But generally this only happens in rare cases where the "pitcher of record" doesn't actually have an impact on any outs. If during his outing he gives up multiple runs but still gets one guy on a routine out, he'll get the win if his team comes from behind while he's still the pitcher of record.

Whether home or away, its the same situation.

I had a question about a situation earlier that I thought was a little hazier:

A pitcher is pitching in a tie game. He allows a leadoff single/walk and is relieved. The relief pitcher then allows a fielder's choice, the original runner is forced out and the 2nd batter takes his place at first. Later in the inning, that runner goes ahead to score and the game is lost.

Who gets the loss?

That's one that I could see going either way, but the loss goes to the original pitcher who allowed the first base runner to reach (even though he wasn't the guy that scored), which I think is the right call.

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PaulFolk Hangout Grand Counsel

PaulFolk

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I had a question about a situation earlier that I thought was a little hazier:

A pitcher is pitching in a tie game. He allows a leadoff single/walk and is relieved. The relief pitcher then allows a fielder's choice, the original runner is forced out and the 2nd batter takes his place at first. Later in the inning, that runner goes ahead to score and the game is lost.

Who gets the loss?

That's one that I could see going either way, but the loss goes to the original pitcher who allowed the first base runner to reach (even though he wasn't the guy that scored), which I think is the right call.

The loss would go to the original pitcher. If the original pitcher gives up the baserunner, and then there's a fielder's choice, the new baserunner is still charged to the original pitcher.

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PaulFolk Hangout Grand Counsel

PaulFolk

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As for Bryan's question, 99.9% of the time, the winning pitcher in that scenario would be the guy who pitched the 8th.

However, there is one very rare exception (as Mackus was mentioning): if the pitcher in the 8th did a remarkably poor job, the official scorer has the discretion to not credit him with the win, and to give it to the next pitcher instead.

This happened in an Orioles game in 2006 (recap here, see the last paragraph). Jim Brower faced one batter in the eighth and gave up an RBI single. The inning ended when the runner was thrown out trying to steal. The O's took the lead in the top of the 9th, and Chris Ray pitched a perfect 9th. The official scorer decided that Brower didn't deserve a win for facing just one batter and giving up a hit to him. So Ray was credited with the win instead.

But like I said, that's a very rare exception. The quick answer to Bryan's question is that the pitcher in the 8th gets the win.

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TakebackOPACY All-Star

TakebackOPACY

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Page Down to Rule 10:17

10.17 Winning And Losing Pitcher

(a) The official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher that pitcher whose team assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or during the inning on offense in which such pitcher is removed from the game, and does not relinquish such lead, unless

(1) such pitcher is a starting pitcher and Rule 10.17(b) applies; or

(2) Rule 10.17© applies.

Rule 10.17(a) Comment: Whenever the score is tied, the game becomes a new contest insofar as the winning pitcher is concerned. Once the opposing team assumes the lead, all pitchers who have pitched up to that point and have been replaced are excluded from being credited with the victory. If the pitcher against whose pitching the opposing team gained the lead continues to pitch until his team regains the lead, which it holds to the finish of the game, that pitcher shall be the winning pitcher.

(b) If the pitcher whose team assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or during the inning on offense in which such pitcher is removed from the game, and does not relinquish such lead, is a starting pitcher who has not completed

(1) five innings of a game that lasts six or more innings on defense, or

(2) four innings of a game that lasts five innings on defense, then the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the relief pitcher, if there is only one relief pitcher, or the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer’s judgment was the most effective, if there is more than one relief pitcher.

Rule 10.17(b) Comment: It is the intent of Rule 10.17(b) that a relief pitcher pitch at least one complete inning or pitch when a crucial out is made, within the context of the game (including the score), in order to be credited as the winning pitcher. If the first relief pitcher pitches effectively, the official scorer should not presumptively credit that pitcher with the win, because the rule requires that the win be credited to the pitcher who was the most effective, and a subsequent relief pitcher may have been most effective. The official scorer, in determining which relief pitcher was the most effective, should consider the number of runs, earned runs and base runners given up by each relief pitcher and the context of the game at the time of each relief pitcher’s appearance. If two or more relief pitchers were similarly effective, the official scorer should give the presumption to the earlier pitcher as the winning pitcher.

© The official scorer shall not credit as the winning pitcher a relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when at least one succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping his team maintain its lead. In such a case, the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the succeeding relief pitcher who was most effective, in the judgment of the official scorer.

Rule 10.17© Comment: The official scorer generally should, but is not required to, consider the appearance of a relief pitcher to be ineffective and brief if such relief pitcher pitches less than one inning and allows two or more earned runs to score (even if such runs are charged to a previous pitcher). Rule 10.17(b) Comment provides guidance on choosing the winning pitcher from among several succeeding relief pitchers.

(d) A losing pitcher is a pitcher who is responsible for the run that gives the winning team a lead that the winning team does not relinquish.

Rule 10.17(d) Comment: Whenever the score is tied, the game becomes a new contest insofar as the losing pitcher is concerned.

(e) A league may designate a non-championship game (for example, the Major League All-Star Game) for which Rules 10.17(a)(1) and 10.17(b) do not apply. In such games, the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher that pitcher whose team assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or during the inning on offense in which such pitcher is removed from the game, and does not relinquish such lead, unless such pitcher is knocked out after the winning team has attained a commanding lead and the official scorer concludes that a subsequent pitcher is entitled to credit as the winning pitcher.

How's that for Research & Development?

<img src=http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk25/TakebackOPACY/superman.gif></img>Looking for a *fistbump*

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