Jump to content

2018 Chris Tillman


Il BuonO

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 467
  • Created
  • Last Reply
38 minutes ago, amdcpus said:

 

I want him off the team, now. He's downright terrible, worst starter in the majors.

 

o

 

He threw the table over in the clubhouse immediately after the game, and he smashed the Gatorade cooler with one of Jonathan Schoop's bats.

A guy with that kind of fire in his belly is good for something. He's not like that weasel Nestor Cortes Jr, who once again had a smug look on his face after it took him 23 pitches to retire the Yankees in the 8th inning. It was a scoreless inning, but I don't care. Smug looks don't play in Major League baseball.

 

o

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

How much rope does Tillman get?  Are we looking at another Ubaldo deal where he finally goes in the bullpen at the end of May after catastrophic losses? Or do we cut bait and put him in long relief when Cobb is ready? 

Do you think he will provide value in the pen?

I'd DFA him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think what fans are not taking into account is that the O's will need 7-10 starters to get through he season.   Right now they have 6 counting Cobb.   They are one injury away from needing Tillman in the rotation.   So the O's are unlikely to DFA him as long as he  can go 5 innings and give up 3 runs.  

Yes, he does not look like they Tillman of old.  He looks like a guy that have lost his fastball and is pitching back to get outs.   If that is what he is than that is what the O's will need to deal with.

Today was better than his last outing.  Hopefully he continues to refine the stuff he still has.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you think he will provide value in the pen?

I'd DFA him.

I'm with you on that. I'm afraid he will be on the team for the year. One of Bucks boys. He is a piss poor pitcher. But he is not going anywhere. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I think what fans are not taking into account is that the O's will need 7-10 starters to get through he season.   Right now they have 6 counting Cobb.   They are one injury away from needing Tillman in the rotation.   So the O's are unlikely to DFA him as long as he  can go 5 innings and give up 3 runs.  

Yes, he does not look like they Tillman of old.  He looks like a guy that have lost his fastball and is pitching back to get outs.   If that is what he is than that is what the O's will need to deal with.

Today was better than his last outing.  Hopefully he continues to refine the stuff he still has.

Yes, technically his outing was "better", but an outing that corresponds to a 8.44 ERA vs 9.00 ERA for his first outing, and a WHIP of 2.25 vs a 2.75 WHIP for his first outing isn't exactly an improvement I would consider encouraging.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, amdcpus said:

 

Yes, technically his outing was "better", but an outing that corresponds to a 8.44 ERA vs 9.00 ERA for his first outing, and a WHIP of 2.25 vs a 2.75 WHIP for his first outing isn't exactly an improvement I would consider encouraging.

Please......   After 5 innings Tillman had given up 3 runs.   The score was tied.   It was Buck that pushed him to come out for the 6th.   It was too much to ask if the priority was for him to have a good outing.  But that was not what Buck wanted.  He wanted to push him so the next time he would go further.  And Buck knew the pen was thin so he got out of Tillman all he could.   That distorted Tillman's final results.  Stats don't always tell the whole story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, wildcard said:

Please......   After 5 innings Tillman had given up 3 runs.   The score was tied.   It was Buck that pushed him to come out for the 6th.   It was too much to ask if the priority was for him to have a good outing.  But that was not what Buck wanted.  He wanted to push him so the next time he would go further.  And Buck knew the pen was thin so he got out of Tillman all he could.   That distorted Tillman's final results.  Stats don't always tell the whole story.

Honestly, his stats today were better than how he pitched. His pitching was awful. His breaking balls looked decent at times, but his fastball was horrific.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, amdcpus said:

Honestly, his stats today were better than how he pitched. His pitching was awful. His breaking balls looked decent at times, but his fastball was horrific.

That is why he pitched backwards.  And he probably has to continue doing that to be effective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, wildcard said:

That is why he pitched backwards.  And he probably has to continue doing that to be effective.

Tillman doesn't have the command to pitch backwards or the stuff to attack hitters.  He has no hope unless his shoulder/stuff magically gets better. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Tillman doesn't have the command to pitch backwards or the stuff to attack hitters.  He has no hope unless his shoulder/stuff magically gets better. 

He is not a #1 anymore.  That what he was for the O's for a while.   He is a #5.   Or is trying to be.   He will not dominate.    He hopefully will eat innings and keep the O's in games.  i don't know if he gets better or he is what he is now.   

What I do know is that the O's are going to need more than 5 starters this year.   Probably more than 6.   Buck will work with him because he will need him this year.  The O's probably can't trade for a starter until June  or July.  Harvey may not be ready until then and his innings will be limited.  So don't expect Tillman to be DFA'd unless he fall completely on his butt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

He is not a #1 anymore.  That what he was for the O's for a while.   He is a #5.   Or is trying to be.   He will not dominate.    He hopefully will eat innings and keep the O's in games.  i don't know if he gets better or he is what he is now.   

What I do know is that the O's are going to need more than 5 starters this year.   Probably more than 6.   Buck will work with him because he will need him this year.  The O's probably can't trade for a starter until June  or July.  Harvey may not be ready until then and his innings will be limited.  So don't expect Tillman to be DFA'd unless he fall completely on his butt.

I don't care, Tillman is atrocious. Horrific. If we need a spot starter, call up Ynoa or Aquino, both are better than Tillman.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Tillman doesn't have the command to pitch backwards or the stuff to attack hitters.  He has no hope unless his shoulder/stuff magically gets better. 

Yep, he needs much better command....both to more consistently get ahead of hitters and to minimize those ghastly meatballs he throws.  He showed some flashes today of a modified effective Tillman.  Got ahead with some nice breaking balls then managed a quasi-vintage rising fastball for the kill.  But most of the time I was waiting for something bad to happen.  The problem with his role as a #5 innings eater is that even when he was good Tillman, he often had trouble getting out of the first couple of innings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


  • Posts

    • Cowser is likely the starting CF next season and I don't want to trade him or Kjerstad for that matter.
    • Where do you rank Blake Snell  ?
    • I didn’t say you’d like it. You’re living in delusional world if you think that’s not close to the cost. 
    • 4.2 WAR …1.16 WHIP 6.9 H/9 …. The K/9 is not what the K guys want but not every guy needs to be a strike out pitcher.
    • That would be two mistakes.
    • I think that you are attempting to convince this board of something that we all know. I don't believe that any reasonable poster has suggested that JH isn't going to hit or be fine at the ML. You should distance yourself from anyone who believes that 34 Major League ABs (as a 20 year old) is who he is as a player. But you should also be willing to see the forest through the trees. Any consideration of trading JH goes beyond what I mention above and what you listed. I posted some of the following the other day to another member of the board but I'll go a little bit further with it. Gunnar is the SS for the Orioles for the next however many years that he decides. He's two years older than Holliday. Their defensive profiles are very different. Jackson Holliday is not pushing Gunnar to third. I've been saying this for almost two years now. What all of this comes down to is between JH and Mayo, which player's defense at their current MiLB position is more stomachable. I say that it's Mayo. Looking at both players and how they project (not just looking at them as current players) Mayo looks to me like he's more likely to stick at third than Holliday looks like he'll stick in the infield and it isn't solely because of the two of them alone. The entire makeup of the organization factors into this. Basallo still projects as a catcher but where does he play when he isn't catching or DHing? First Base. Where does Adley play if he isn't catching or DHing? First Base. Where does Kjerstad end up if he isn't moved? First Base. And so on and so on. In three years, they are going to have three guys who probably end up at 1B either because they are not good defensive players elsewhere (Kjerstad is in fact a hack in the outfield) or to save their legs (Adley and Basallo). If Mayo is on the roster, he simply cannot occupy innings at First unless one of the three guys above are moved or unless he is moved. And where does JW fit into all of this? His defense is better than JH's right now and will always be better. If JW and Mayo are on the roster, where does JH fit in the infield? His defense at 2B is not better than Mayo's defense at 3B. Do they move him to the OF like I have speculated for almost two years? If I am ME and Co. and I fully intended to keep Holliday in the organization I would have him log innings in centerfield instead of showcasing him in the infield where he doesn't offer better defense than any of Gunnar, JW, Mateo, Urias or even Mayo (in my opinion). JW and Gunnar graduated through the minors together and are close and have good rapport up the middle. I see JW's defense at 2B on par with what Gunnar does at SS if JW stops bouncing between Third and Second.  So, where does JH fit into the team going forward? To me, he doesn't. This has nothing to do with his 34 ABs this year. This doesn't even have anything to do with the defensive limitations that I have been very outspoken about for nearly two years. This has to do with the overall health and makeup of the entire organization and what is best for them to pursue a Championship at the highest level while maintaining a strong enough pipeline to sustain the winning culture that ME and Co. have worked so hard to rebuild. If JH is the headliner of a deal to acquire a top flight starter (and to be clear, this is the ONLY way that I would trade him) it allows the O's to preserve more of the strength of the organization, which is their prospect pipeline. Whether it is Skubel or another bonafide starter, JH as the headliner means not having to include other (or more) top prospects. I still have JH as the top prospect in the O's system but Mayo and Basallo have closed that gap for me. Not because of the dozen or so games for Holliday in the bigs but because the other two guys are developing and both look like they're going to be extremely productive major leaguers. Yes, they are all still prospects and until they prove themselves at the big league level, that is all that they are to the O's. But if a deal to acquire a controllable (this year + 2 more years), legitimate TOR pitcher meant having to choose between dealing the #3, #5, #8, #13 and #20 Prospects or the #1, #5 and #11 Prospects, I'm trading Holliday, Norby and Fabian before I trade Mayo, Norby, Povich, Max Wagner and Joshua Liranzo. At the end of the day it may be just as much a numbers game as anything else. Would it sting to give up Jackson Holliday? Of course it would and I am not openly advocating to move him or suggesting that I don't like the player. I've made Robinson Cano comps to him. But for the next three years, the O's would be better with a TOR starter, Mayo at 3B and JW at 2B than they would be with JW at 3B, Holliday at 2B, Mayo not getting ABs.. and not acquiring a TOR starter. Like it or not that is the reality and why I think that Holliday makes more sense to move for that bonafide TOR, controllable starter. 
    • This gets totally overlooked constantly. 
  • Popular Contributors

  • Popular Now

×
×
  • Create New...