Jump to content

The Schilling HOF debate


Moose Milligan

Is Schilling a Hall of Famer?  

58 members have voted

  1. 1. Is Schilling a Hall of Famer?



Recommended Posts

  • Replies 70
  • Created
  • Last Reply
I'll even add a poll. But here's Stark's link: http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=21220

IMO, he is. His big post season games override his stats and earn him a spot.

I also voted yes, but I think it will take him a while to get in. How long may depend on who else is on the ballot from previous years. The voters, for whatever reason they each have, never seem to vote in a large number of HOF'ers in a given year.

That's my guess as to why Fisk didn't get in until 2000. He was also on the ballot with George Brett, Nolan Ryan, and Robin Yount.

Plus, depending who retires at the end of this year, quite a few pitchers will also be on the ballot. Some with much better cases for HOF induction than Schilling has.

Year *Players eligible for the first time for BBWAA election (Towards the bottom of the page)

2009: Steve Avery, Jay Bell, Mike Bordick, John Burkett, David Cone, Ron Gant, Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Todd Hundley, Orlando Merced, Charles Nagy, Denny Neagle, Jesse Orosco, Dean Palmer, Dan Plesac, Rick Reed, Greg Vaughn, Mo Vaughn, Matt Williams

2010: Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Andy Ashby, Ellis Burks, Dave Burba, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Ray Lankford, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Mark McLemore, Shane Reynolds, David Segui, Robin Ventura, Fernando Vina, Todd Zeile

2011: Wilson Alvarez, Carlos Baerga, Jeff Bagwell, Bret Boone, Kevin Brown, Cal Eldred, John Franco, Juan Gonzalez, Marquis Grissom, Bobby Higginson, Charles Johnson, Al Leiter, Tino Martinez, Raul Mondesi, Jose Offerman, John Olerud, Rafael Palmeiro, Paul Quantrill, Steve Reed, Kirk Rueter, Rey Sanchez, Benito Santiago, B.J. Surhoff, Ugueth Urbina, Ismael Valdez, Larry Walker, Dan Wilson

2012: Pedro Astacio, David Bell, Jeromy Burnitz, Vinny Castilla, Scott Erickson, Carl Everett, Jeff Fassero, Alex S. Gonzalez, Danny Graves, Rick Helling, Dustin Hermanson, Jose Hernandez, Brian Jordan, Matt Lawton, Bill Mueller, Terry Mulholland, Jeff Nelson, Phil Nevin, Brad Radke, Joe Randa, Tim Salmon, Ruben Sierra, J.T. Snow, Jose Vizcaino, Bernie Williams, Eric Young

2013: Sandy Alomar Jr., Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds, Jeff Cirillo, Royce Clayton, Roger Clemens, Jeff Conine, Steve Finley, Julio Franco, Shawn Green, Ryan Klesko, Mike Lieberthal, Kenny Lofton, Jose Mesa, Damian Miller, Eric Milton, Russ Ortiz, Neifi Perez, Mike Piazza, Reggie Sanders, Aaron Sele, Mike Stanton, Todd Walker, David Wells, Rondell White, Bob Wickman, Woody Williams

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just check out the "Appearances on Leaderboards and Awards" section of his BR page. When he didn't lead the league in a given stat, he was year after year in the top five, if not second. What else do you have to do to get in?

Unfortunately there is no "checklist", if so there'd be no debate on who is in and who is not. What fun would that be? :P

Some of the things they consider when they vote are:

  • Dominating your position for a part of your career (not 1 or 2 years)
  • Leading the league in relavent statistics
  • How did they perform in the postseason
  • How many All-Star games
  • How does he compare to others from his era?
  • How does he compare historically
  • What career milestones were accomplished
  • Awards earned (MVP, CY, etc.)
The guy only has 216 career victories. And people are debating Moose's 260+.

It's not about comparing one stat against one other player. It's way more complicated then that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he gets in, though it's not clear if he gets in on the first ballot. Certainly he's better than quite a few pitchers in the Hall of Fame. Of course, that's true of a number of pitchers who aren't in the Hall.

Clearly ahead of him - Clemens, Maddux, Glavine, Johnson, Martinez

Part of the same debate - Smoltz, Mussina

Down a notch - Kevin Brown, Moyer, Rogers, Pettitte

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he gets in, though it's not clear if he gets in on the first ballot. Certainly he's better than quite a few pitchers in the Hall of Fame. Of course, that's true of a number of pitchers who aren't in the Hall.

Clearly ahead of him - Clemens, Maddux, Glavine, Johnson, Martinez

Part of the same debate - Smoltz, Mussina

Down a notch - Kevin Brown, Moyer, Rogers, Pettitte

I personally draw the line after Moyer, which probably lets in more guys than will actually get in. I know Rogers has more wins than Brown but Brown's peak was insane and he probably could have won 235 on different teams.

David Wells is missing from your list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he gets in, though it's not clear if he gets in on the first ballot. Certainly he's better than quite a few pitchers in the Hall of Fame. Of course, that's true of a number of pitchers who aren't in the Hall.

Clearly ahead of him - Clemens, Maddux, Glavine, Johnson, Martinez

Part of the same debate - Smoltz, Mussina

Down a notch - Kevin Brown, Moyer, Rogers, Pettitte

Gotta disagree about Mussina. His ERA is higher at 3.71. Correct me if I'm wrong but if Mussina were to be elected that ERA would be the highest of anyone in the HOF and by a pretty good margin.

At any rate, Schillings postseason record dwarfs Mussina's 7-9 3.42 ERA.

Schilling also trumps him on 20 win seasons and Cy Young shares by a wide margin as well as strikeouts and k/bb ratio.

I think Smoltz is a shoe-in. He's got the ring, the hardware, the wins, and the saves. While his postseason record is 12-12, he has a 2.65 ERA so it looks like the Braves didn't score many runs for him...and it's not like the Braves did a WHOLE lot of winning in the postseason....he struck out 194 and walked 67 which is a good ratio, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My vote reflects my belief that he should be in. I really don't know if he will get in. The writers haven't yet considered very many pitchers who have played in the "steroid era", for lack of a better word.

BTW, his career ERA+ is 42nd all-time. Better than Palmer, Marichal, Carlton, Feller, Spahn, Bunning and Perry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gotta disagree about Mussina. His ERA is higher at 3.71. Correct me if I'm wrong but if Mussina were to be elected that ERA would be the highest of anyone in the HOF and by a pretty good margin.

You are correct, but consider era. Mussina's ERA+ would be better than at least 1/3 of the Hall's pitchers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wins are a product of the team not the player. Judging a pitcher by how many wins he has is beyond absurd.

It is far less absurd when you are talking about career wins, than it is when you are talking about wins in one season. Obviously, the strength of the team you played for and luck still factors into career wins, but less so than when looking at an individual season.

Here are some reasons Mussina has won 44 more games than Schilling:

1. He was better at a younger age. Moose won 36 games by the time he was 24. Schilling had won 4. So, that's +32 in Moose's column right there, and that has nothing to do with who he played for.

2. Schilling had three seasons, 1994, 1995 and 2005, where he missed significant time due to injury. He made only 41 starts in those three years. Mussina made 86 starts in those three seasons (would have been more, except for the baseball strike in 1994-95).

3. Overall, Mussina has made 83 more starts than Schilling - and counting.

Overall, I see them as two very excellent pitchers. Schilling was probably a bit better at his peak, Mussina has been more consistent and has stayed healthier. If they were both on the ballot and you had to choose only one, it would be a very close call. If you froze both of their careers right now, I suspect Schilling would get in a shade before Mussina. But Mussina's not done yet, and we have to see how much longer he pitches and what successes he achieves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




  • Posts

    • I don't even want my mind to go there. I don't think I can endure another cheap ownership and be a fan. For now I'm going to keep the faith that they won't be. It could be Elias being too conservative AGAIN then lack of commitment from ownership if they aren't very active in FA again 
    • I have to laugh how different baseball is from football. Here Elias is saying he is in the information gathering stage when FA has already started and then you have football where you had Rex Ryan at Bart Scott's front door at the stroke of midnight in the start of football FA years ago. Crazy how the 2 sports works. 
    • Pinto seems to be Eflin’s guy with McCann not coming back. For a team with budget constraints, is it really worth it pay McCann more than the league min?  I say no.  Also, it would be harder to get rid of McCann mid season in the clubhouse when we believe Basallo is ready. 
    • I find Elias's comments when asked about Coloumbe kind of troubling. Sounds like business as usual for the Orioles. Translation: don't expect much, we're cheapskates ... "I think any time you look at option decisions, you're looking at price point on a salary and you're looking at putting together a budget and a plan for the offseason that encompasses the entirety of your roster, and in particular the bullpen. And then, ultimately, it comes down to a fit and your talent evaluation, and the fit that you see going forward. We had hard decisions in both directions with these option decisions. Sometimes, you make a decision not to kick off your offseason with exercising an option, but you remain in position to stay in touch with a really good player, and Danny's somebody who has done a ton for us, been enormously successful the past couple of years and we really enjoyed having him, and he's somebody that we're going to want to continue talking to throughout the free agency, as long as that lasts. But I'm sure he's going to have a lot of good opportunities, and we'll see where it goes"
    • I would have  took Preston Smith for a 7th.  Damn like the Steelers really needed him. I'm just not feeling a SB at all. This defense just isn't going to get it done in a big game. Thanks DeCosta for taking another year off of Lamar"s chances. A 4th for Ojulari wouldn't had been a bad deal. 
    • Ok but I think many Orioles fans and the Orioles themselves would want the less years and not care so much about the  yearly salary especially with pitchers.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...