2009... Adding Two Monster FA's

[RShack]

{in response to Tony's opinion about signing Tex and Dunn}

It's certainly an impressive lineup, no doubt... but it seems to me that you're abandoning the rebuild... am I off in that assumption?

There's nothing about that abandons rebuilding... unless you somehow redefine rebuilding in a way that excludes FA's. But why would you define it that way? Rebuilding means fixing the franchise top to bottom. FA is one tool to do that. Signing-and-developing the right kids and making the right trades are 2 other parts. The Orioles are in a financial position where they can use all 3 parts. They're not the Pirates or the Royals, money-wise.

AM already said that you use FA for bats, not arms, and that's consistent with Tony's opinion. As long as AM keeps putting an emphasis on the farm system, the only cost to rebuilding from doing that would be the draft picks you lose for signing the guys. But even that isn't so bad, depending on where our draft slot is, because we'd be paying for them with a couple lower draft picks. So, in a year when you have the right draft slot, signing multiple FA's is the most economical way to sign FA's (just talking about the cost in draft picks, not $$$).

[clapdiddy]

Every indication I have is the same thing. The O's will try hard for Tex this off season.

I'd also like to see them go after Dunn as well and extend Roberts.

Imagine this lineup:

1. Roberts - 2B Switch

2. Markakis - RF Left

3. Teixeira - 1B Switch

4. Dunn - DH Left

5. Huff - 3B Left

6. Wieters - C Switch

7. Scott - LF Left

8. Jones - CF Right

9. Shortstop

With a bench of Mora, Reimold, Fahey, Quiroz

All I can say is that lineup will score some runs.

By 2010 Our rotation could look like this:

Brian Matusz - Left

Jeremy Guthrie - Right

Garrett Olson - Left

Chorye Spoone - Right

Daniel Cabrera/Radhames Liz/Adam Loewen/David Hernandez/Brad Bergeson/Jake Arrieta/Troy Patton

Bullpen could include:

George Sherrill who could be a Jamie Walker type reliever instead of closer

Adam Loewen

Jim Johnson

Chris Ray

Randor Bierd

Bergeson as a ground ball guy

Albers

Sarfate

McCrory

Penn

I'd be willing to go to "war" with this group of guys in the AL East....

I like this a lot. Dunn and Teixiera would do wonders for this lineup.

We wouldn't necessarily be abandoning the rebuild mode as some have suggested. We could still acquire young guys for shortstop and third base. Huff and Mora will probably be gone after 2009. We could then plug our new third base acquisition into the lineup in 2010 and put Reimold in LF.

[El Gordo]

I like this a lot. Dunn and Teixiera would do wonders for this lineup.

We wouldn't necessarily be abandoning the rebuild mode as some have suggested. We could still acquire young guys for shortstop and third base. Huff and Mora will probably be gone after 2009. We could then plug our new third base acquisition into the lineup in 2010 and put Reimold in LF.

No doubt, and I have no doubt that we will make an energetic effort to sign one or both. But I doubt that we do. So then what? What other FA bats are out there? Next year or the year after? How do we improve the offense without trading some of our pitching? We need a SS, a 1B, and a 3B by '10. That's a lot of young SP to give up.

[Greg Pappas]

There's nothing about that abandons rebuilding... unless you somehow redefine rebuilding in a way that excludes FA's. But why would you define it that way? Rebuilding means fixing the franchise top to bottom. FA is one tool to do that. Signing-and-developing the right kids and making the right trades are 2 other parts. The Orioles are in a financial position where they can use all 3 parts. They're not the Pirates or the Royals, money-wise.

AM already said that you use FA for bats, not arms, and that's consistent with Tony's opinion. As long as AM keeps putting an emphasis on the farm system, the only cost to rebuilding from doing that would be the draft picks you lose for signing the guys. But even that isn't so bad, depending on where our draft slot is, because we'd be paying for them with a couple lower draft picks. So, in a year when you have the right draft slot, signing multiple FA's is the most economical way to sign FA's (just talking about the cost in draft picks, not $$$).

In my estimation, rebuilding is generally defined as initiating a plan that calls for an emphasis on acquiring young talent, via trades of certain veterans and through the wise use of draft choices... with the goal of having the higher level talent in a position to succeed roughly at the same time at the ML level, and adding a strong base of talent at the lower levels behind them.

Losing key draft choices, holding on to certain valuable veterans rather than dealing them, to improve only the ML team is not rebuilding... that is called trying to win now.

We can't sign Tex and Dunn, keep Roberts, Sherrill, Huff et al AND rebuild.

You cannot do both.

You and I agree wholeheartedly that we have the financial resources to do things that many franchises cannot, but we should use that power and sign FA's AFTER we are in a position to be able to handle the loss of picks and are at a point that those FA's would help us for a WS run.

I am interested to see how AM handles this trade deadline and subsequently the off-season. It's always an adventure when you're an Orioles fan.

[bird watcher]

Buying FA now is another way of buying young talent in the future. You have to get talent in here somehow even if you aren't sure you will compete next year.

See Miguel Tejada.

The biggest question that needs to be answered before I can comment on whether the proposed FA signings makes sense is this: How high are they willing to go with the payroll?

If they are willing to go to 160 mil then sign Dunn, Tex, CC, and get on with it!

If one or two don't pan out then there is room to eat it.

See New York Yankees.

[VeveJones007]

In my estimation, rebuilding is generally defined as initiating a plan that calls for an emphasis on acquiring young talent, via trades of certain veterans and through the wise use of draft choices... with the goal of having the higher level talent in a position to succeed roughly at the same time at the ML level, and adding a strong base of talent at the lower levels behind them.

Losing key draft choices, holding on to certain valuable veterans rather than dealing them, to improve only the ML team is not rebuilding... that is called trying to win now.

We can't sign Tex and Dunn, keep Roberts, Sherrill, Huff et al AND rebuild.

You cannot do both.

You and I agree wholeheartedly that we have the financial resources to do things that many franchises cannot, but we should use that power and sign FA's AFTER we are in a position to be able to handle the loss of picks and are at a point that those FA's would help us for a WS run.

I am interested to see how AM handles this trade deadline and subsequently the off-season. It's always an adventure when you're an Orioles fan.

I'm for signing some FA's, but I don't want the O's to sign Tex and Dunn for next season. I want to sign them this offseason with the idea that in 2010/2011, they will push this team over the top when the young talent develops. If we're going to need to sign a FA or two to help get this team where it needs to be, what difference does it make if we sign them this offseason, next, or the year after (so long as they're young enough and will have the same production over the next 5+ years)?

[RShack]

We can't sign Tex and Dunn, keep Roberts, Sherrill, Huff et al AND rebuild.

You cannot do both.

I don't see why not.

So, why not? Why can't you?

Not sure who the "et all" part is. Tex and Dunn would likely cost us a 2nd-round and 3rd-round pick.

That's not the end of the world. Most 2nd and 3rd round picks don't amount to much anyway.

That doesn't stop them from getting young kids by various means.

You can sign all the Latino's you want.

You can pick up other kids in every round except the 2nd and 3rd.

You can be smart about Rule V.

You can trade this-kid for that-kid.

You can still get kids. It comes down to picking the right ones and developing them properly.

So, all in all, I don't see why not.

[bird watcher]

In my estimation, rebuilding is generally defined as initiating a plan that calls for an emphasis on acquiring young talent, via trades of certain veterans and through the wise use of draft choices... with the goal of having the higher level talent in a position to succeed roughly at the same time at the ML level, and adding a strong base of talent at the lower levels behind them.

Losing key draft choices, holding on to certain valuable veterans rather than dealing them, to improve only the ML team is not rebuilding... that is called trying to win now.

We can't sign Tex and Dunn, keep Roberts, Sherrill, Huff et al AND rebuild.

You cannot do both.

You and I agree wholeheartedly that we have the financial resources to do things that many franchises cannot, but we should use that power and sign FA's AFTER we are in a position to be able to handle the loss of picks and are at a point that those FA's would help us for a WS run.

I am interested to see how AM handles this trade deadline and subsequently the off-season. It's always an adventure when you're an Orioles fan.

You cannot count on the player you will need to compete being available on your timetable. You have to think ahead at what you WILL need and get it now if it can be had now. If next offseason or the year after even, we are ready for a dominant first baseman, will one be available that fits?

[bird watcher]

I'm for signing some FA's, but I don't want the O's to sign Tex and Dunn for next season. I want to sign them this offseason with the idea that in 2010/2011, they will push this team over the top when the young talent develops. If we're going to need to sign a FA or two to help get this team where it needs to be, what difference does it make if we sign them this offseason, next, or the year after (so long as they're young enough and will have the same production over the next 5+ years)?

You type faster than me.:laughlol:

[PoorMike]

I don't see why not.

So, why not? Why can't you?

Not sure who the "et all" part is. Tex and Dunn would likely cost us a 2nd-round and 3rd-round pick.

That's not the end of the world. Most 2nd and 3rd round picks don't amount to much anyway.

We'd lose a couple of draft picks (if we finished well, it would be a first and second)...plus we'd still have no SS.

[Mad Mark]

If they are willing to go to 160 mil then sign Dunn, Tex, CC, and get on with it!

If one or two don't pan out then there is room to eat it.

See New York Yankees.

I would be willing to bet (relatively) large sums of money that there is zero chance of the Orioles having a $160MM payroll...ever. Nada, zip, zilch.

[VeveJones007]

You type faster than me.:laughlol:

You summed it up with fewer words though. I think it's a push.

[ChaosLex]

Every indication I have is the same thing. The O's will try hard for Tex this off season.

I'd also like to see them go after Dunn as well and extend Roberts.

Imagine this lineup:

1. Roberts - 2B Switch

2. Markakis - RF Left

3. Teixeira - 1B Switch

4. Dunn - DH Left

5. Huff - 3B Left

6. Wieters - C Switch

7. Scott - LF Left

8. Jones - CF Right

9. Shortstop

With a bench of Mora, Reimold, Fahey, Quiroz

All I can say is that lineup will score some runs.

By 2010 Our rotation could look like this:

Brian Matusz - Left

Jeremy Guthrie - Right

Garrett Olson - Left

Chorye Spoone - Right

Daniel Cabrera/Radhames Liz/Adam Loewen/David Hernandez/Brad Bergeson/Jake Arrieta/Troy Patton

Bullpen could include:

George Sherrill who could be a Jamie Walker type reliever instead of closer

Adam Loewen

Jim Johnson

Chris Ray

Randor Bierd

Bergeson as a ground ball guy

Albers

Sarfate

McCrory

Penn

I'd be willing to go to "war" with this group of guys in the AL East....

That would be a killer lineup. Unfortunately, with 29 other teams in the league, I find it hard to believe we'd outbid every team for Teixeira AND Dunn. I'm confident we'll get Teixeira, but I think both of them is a pipe dream.

[Tony-OH]

It's certainly an impressive lineup, no doubt... but it seems to me that you're abandoning the rebuild... am I off in that assumption?

What do you mean? We don't have the bats in the system to rebuild the lineup. We HAVE to go out get bats. we are rebuilding with arms and if you look at my rotation and bullpen, it's certainly rebuilt from within.

I really don't understand the thought process that believes adding impact young bats like Tex and Dunn is not part of the process.

[Tony-OH]

That would be a killer lineup. Unfortunately, with 29 other teams in the league, I find it hard to believe we'd outbid every team for Teixeira AND Dunn. I'm confident we'll get Teixeira, but I think both of them is a pipe dream.

Me too really, but it sure would be nice....