Jay Payton's middle finger

[Dipper9]

Bottom line for me is, nobody should feel like it was directed at them except the guy (or gal) it was actually directed at. I wasn't there, but if I was, I'm pretty sure my reaction would've been along the lines of "serves the bozo right".

I mean, it's not like Payton can call time out to say "Sir, I am doing my best out here and I'd appreciate it if you can take note". And running up into the bleachers to whale away on the guy hollering at him would be more of a blemish on the sport and the franchise.

As for kids seeing it...if Payton had grabbed his sack or something, I can understand the outrage more. I just don't see the gesture itself as that threatening or foul outside of the meaning we've come to assign to it.

Not picking on you BBA. This is just one where we'll have to disagree. Roberts will get my vote for the last spot. We're cool.

I hear ya Boom Boom, but the OP never said HE was offended. What he said was he had to explain to his 5 year old kid what was happening. Your argument is a pet peeve of mine. Its like teenagers who feel like they need to drop "f-bombs" every 5 words out of their mouths, even if they are in a mall, stadium, restaurant, etc. It agrivates me to no end. Are the f-bombs directed at me? Not at all. But my kids hear it, and I hear it, and it just makes me yurn for the days of yesteryear when people "respected" one another enough NOT to do this kind of thing. The "finger" in and of itself is not a big deal, and YES, to your point, the jerk in the stands probably did deserve it, but Payton should have had enough respect for the kids watching him, oh yeah, and the other 20,000 people who DIDN'T yell at him, to NOT flip the jerk off for those sections to see him.

[Dr. FLK]

OK, let me make myself more clear.

Payton wasn't flipping off the fans. He was flipping off a "fan*".

* in this case, a patron who may or may not have paid for a ticket, and may or may not have been cheering for the home team, who nonetheless has the full rights and privileges of a patron of the establishment known as OPACY.

The difficult part of that is this...the "fan" was sitting pretty darn close to thousands of "other fans." I'm not one of the "think about the children" crown in most cases. But I wouldn't want to take a child to a game and have to explain that. If Jay Payton could act like an adult, maybe he could come up with a better way to handle the situation. I mean, who flips someone the bird anyway? It's either someone with little class or little maturity. I'm not sure why anyone would really defend this action. Who can flip off a paying customer while at work? And, even ignoring the "paying customer" part...what kind of "adult" flips off anyone?

Some actions don't require defense...this is one of them. Is it the end of the world? No. Did he act like a classless idiot? Yes. Is the fan who was screaming at him also an idiot? More than likely. Case closed.

[McLovin]

Well, thanks to Jay Payton, I got to explain to my 5 year old what giving the finger to someone means.

After Payton popped out to second to end the fifth inning, he returned to left field. A fan behind me yelled "Way to get a clutch hit, Payton", at which point Payton put his middle finger against the back of his hat for all to see.

Wow, you have an extremely perceptive and inquisitive 5 year old. You are to be commended.

Number one, he was watching Jay Payton closely.

Number two, he picked up on a gesture that Payton made while putting his hand on his hat (point being it wasn't just a finger in the air).

Number three, he was so struck by this hidden gesture, he just had to ask about it.

My son would be too busy watching a million other things. Or eating. Or playing with the scorecard or souvenirs. Or asking me when is he going to catch a ball. Or telling me that elephants love peanuts.

And if he did happen to notice a man putting a random digit in the air, even if it was right in front of his face, he would assume it was just that - a person putting a random digit in the air. But IF - even IF - he asked me what it meant - I would say "I don't know" and he would forget about it and shift his focus to peanuts and cracker jack...

[YankThis!]

As many of you would guess, I'm not surprised at all by this. I've been an outspoken critic of Payton's attitude. I think that behind the curtain DT spends a lot of time keeping Payton happy. We get to platoon our best offensive player with what could be one of the best right handed pinch hitters in the league. Only he's never available when his bat can really make an impact.... "nothing a trade won't fix" ... I couldn't agree more Jay.

[Spoonless]

I really don't want to defend Jay Payton, but why not? It's not like he's out there flipping the bird every night. He's not swearing at fans (that I know of) or anything on a regular basis.

He was 1 for his last 15 going into the game last night. In the 5th, he had a chance to keep the rally going, with two men on base and he popped out. I'm sure he knew he screwed up and was upset. On top of it, he hears some guy egging him on. It's really not too hard to see why Payton would have flipped him the bird. Should he be fined? Yes, but it's really not that big a deal in my opinion.

[Big Mac]

I had tickets today right by first base. Adam Jones grounded out with 2 runners on and as soon as soon as he got to first base he yelled "F***" at the top of his lunges for everyone to hear.

Lets jump on him also... Oh thats right, since he is our future star its okay for him to do but not our aging outfielder.

The difference is that was directed at himself, not specifically towards a fan.

[Gofannon]

Wow, you have an extremely perceptive and inquisitive 5 year old. You are to be commended.

Number one, he was watching Jay Payton closely.

Number two, he picked up on a gesture that Payton made while putting his hand on his hat (point being it wasn't just a finger in the air).

Number three, he was so struck by this hidden gesture, he just had to ask about it.

My son would be too busy watching a million other things. Or eating. Or playing with the scorecard or souvenirs. Or asking me when is he going to catch a ball. Or telling me that elephants love peanuts.

And if he did happen to notice a man putting a random digit in the air, even if it was right in front of his face, he would assume it was just that - a person putting a random digit in the air. But IF - even IF - he asked me what it meant - I would say "I don't know" and he would forget about it and shift his focus to peanuts and cracker jack...

Thanks, he is very perceptive and very inquisitive. If you'd like to know what a cuttlefish is, he's your man. He's going to nerd camp next week.

Though in this particular case, your sarcasm is overstating his attention to detail. He asked what it meant after the guy behind us saw the gesture (as I did) and said "Payton just gave the crowd the finger".

I know I'm the one who started the thread referring to my son, but my problem with this incident was not that my son lost his innocence as a result of Jay Payton. He will hear all kind of things from the crowd at a sporting event. When he goes to his first Ravens game, he'll hear more obscenities than a George Carlin special. Who knows when he'll learn what they mean. Probably when I'm watching a Maryland-Duke game.

My problem was a gesture made to the home crowd after one ill-timed but hardly reprehensible comment made by a fan. I thought it was disrespectful and unprofessional. Not a life-altering event, not worth cutting him, maybe worth a small fine, but certainly worth a conversation about not having rabbit ears in the outfield and not flipping off the home crowd.

I think FruitLoopKid said it best (and I gave him rep points) when he said:

Some actions don't require defense...this is one of them. Is it the end of the world? No. Did he act like a classless idiot? Yes. Is the fan who was screaming at him also an idiot? More than likely. Case closed.

It's closed as far as I'm concerned. Please look forward to my next exciting thread, "Guillermo Quiroz's Left Nostril".

[amateurfan]

Thanks, he is very perceptive and very inquisitive. If you'd like to know what a cuttlefish is, he's your man. He's going to nerd camp next week.

Though in this particular case, your sarcasm is overstating his attention to detail. He asked what it meant after the guy behind us saw the gesture (as I did) and said "Payton just gave the crowd the finger".

I know I'm the one who started the thread referring to my son, but my problem with this incident was not that my son lost his innocence as a result of Jay Payton. He will hear all kind of things from the crowd at a sporting event. When he goes to his first Ravens game, he'll hear more obscenities than a George Carlin special. Who knows when he'll learn what they mean. Probably when I'm watching a Maryland-Duke game.

My problem was a gesture made to the home crowd after one ill-timed but hardly reprehensible comment made by a fan. I thought it was disrespectful and unprofessional. Not a life-altering event, not worth cutting him, maybe worth a small fine, but certainly worth a conversation about not having rabbit ears in the outfield and not flipping off the home crowd.

I think FruitLoopKid said it best (and I gave him rep points) when he said:

Some actions don't require defense...this is one of them. Is it the end of the world? No. Did he act like a classless idiot? Yes. Is the fan who was screaming at him also an idiot? More than likely. Case closed.

It's closed as far as I'm concerned. Please look forward to my next exciting thread, "Guillermo Quiroz's Left Nostril".

This is an excellent response and I'm glad you posted it. You acquitted yourself well and I liked the discussion. This was a classy response.

[McLovin]

Though in this particular case, your sarcasm is overstating his attention to detail.

I'm overstating? Like you said, you're the one who started the post with "Well, thanks to Jay Payton, I got to explain to my 5 year old what giving the finger to someone means." You could have made your point without that. There's no need for the drama to be sprinkled in. Not that I care - but having my own (almost) five year old, the comment just stood out. I know for a fact he would have survived the incident unscathed (as I know your son did), just like he survived his first 'Yankess Suck' cheer.

[Cokeman]

Thanks, he is very perceptive and very inquisitive. If you'd like to know what a cuttlefish is, he's your man. He's going to nerd camp next week.

Though in this particular case, your sarcasm is overstating his attention to detail. He asked what it meant after the guy behind us saw the gesture (as I did) and said "Payton just gave the crowd the finger".

I know I'm the one who started the thread referring to my son, but my problem with this incident was not that my son lost his innocence as a result of Jay Payton. He will hear all kind of things from the crowd at a sporting event. When he goes to his first Ravens game, he'll hear more obscenities than a George Carlin special. Who knows when he'll learn what they mean. Probably when I'm watching a Maryland-Duke game.

My problem was a gesture made to the home crowd after one ill-timed but hardly reprehensible comment made by a fan. I thought it was disrespectful and unprofessional. Not a life-altering event, not worth cutting him, maybe worth a small fine, but certainly worth a conversation about not having rabbit ears in the outfield and not flipping off the home crowd.

I think FruitLoopKid said it best (and I gave him rep points) when he said:

Some actions don't require defense...this is one of them. Is it the end of the world? No. Did he act like a classless idiot? Yes. Is the fan who was screaming at him also an idiot? More than likely. Case closed.

It's closed as far as I'm concerned. Please look forward to my next exciting thread, "Guillermo Quiroz's Left Nostril".

So, basically you are saying that you exploited your son to make a point.

Maybe that's overly dramatic, but why lead your post with that comment if it wasn't the biggest problem you have with Jay Payton and his gesture? My thought is that you knew it would garner more support for your point of view concerning the incident. That's sad...just sad.

[YankThis!]

So, basically you are saying that you exploited your son to make a point.

Maybe that's overly dramatic, but why lead your post with that comment if it wasn't the biggest problem you have with Jay Payton and his gesture? My thought is that you knew it would garner more support for your point of view concerning the incident. That's sad...just sad.

[boogidownoriole]

I have no problem with this. In your home park you shouldnt worry about being heckled. I blame the fans first.

Hell, I wouldnt heckle Aubrey Huff when I am at the game. :smile11:

[boogidownoriole]

1. I don't condone what Jay Payton did. I agree that it's unprofessional.

2. That said, I thought that the opening poster's point was that it was wrong mostly because he was upset that his 5 year old son saw it and now he had to explain the meaning of this gesture to him. To that I would say if a parent feels that strongly about something like this, then he/she shouldn't take their son to a sporting event. Inevitably, you're going to hear someone (player or fan) shout an expletive or see someone use a vulgar gesture. Unless you live in a bubble, almost every kid is eventually going to be exposed to this kind of stuff.

Poor dad. He had to explain the meaning of the gesture. Get over it! If he hasnt seen that gesture until now he must be living in a cave.

We curse all over the house, yet my daughter never cursed in her life. Hiding them from real life is not the right approach in my opinion.

[longflyball]

The fact that Baltimore is still paying 35 year old Jay Payton $4.5 million to put up a .282 on-base percentage makes it difficult for me to buy into the MacPhail rebuild.

But paying him $4.5 million to put up a .282 on-base percentage is only half the story. He's also an absolute jerk.

Am I supposed to cheer if Jay Payton comes up in the bottom of the ninth and knocks in the game-winning run? Am I less of an Orioles fan if I have a hard time doing it?

Jay Paton makes it hard for me to love this team.

[Dipper9]

Poor dad. He had to explain the meaning of the gesture. Get over it! If he hasnt seen that gesture until now he must be living in a cave.

We curse all over the house, yet my daughter never cursed in her life. Hiding them from real life is not the right approach in my opinion.

You should be real proud!!