Grade the Gausman Deal

[weams]

3 hours ago, amdcpus said:

I doubt it. Have you already forgotten his gems for us earlier this year, including his 9 IP shutout?

I agree. 

[weams]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

What, a real coach like Mazzone?  That guy was a fraud.  

BTW, Roger replaced him.

[wildcard]

3 hours ago, Roy Firestone said:

Why do we always dump pitchers who "get it" somewhere else? Gausman is a young guy with a big arm and we don't even have anyone like him in our system...Yes, he didn't deliver for us consistently. But we always seem to lack the people to help make the adjustments for our pitchers. That, to me, is no coincidence.

Terrible defense, Terrible offense, so the O's trade Gausman.  Stupid trade.

[Moose Milligan]

26 minutes ago, weams said:

BTW, Roger replaced him.

Well, Mazzone was a giant bust here.  I'm sure he had something to do with Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux but I think those guys were going to be good no matter what.  I'm convinced Maddux himself is probably the smartest pitcher of the past 40 years and didn't even need a coach.  

Roger isn't Mazzone, not even close.  I like Roger cause I'm a fan of the 86 Mets but that's about where it stops.  I'm not sure what he's done to help pitchers since he's been here.  

Housecleaning time, everyone goes.

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, weams said:

This. Gausman will always be good. 

Let’s be clear.   For his career Gausman was 39-51 with an ERA+ of 100 for the Orioles.     I’m not going to call that bad, but good is kind of generous IMO.    He was a decent starting pitcher for us, who had his ups and downs.   That’s as far as I’d go.    

[weams]

21 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Terrible defense, Terrible offense, so the O's trade Gausman.  Stupid trade.

And O'Day. And Get 2.5 International Bucks. 

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Terrible defense, Terrible offense, so the O's trade Gausman.  Stupid trade.

Terrible pitching, too.  Terrible coaching and player development.

Someone, anyone, explain to me how Gausman was absolutely indispensable.  I'd love to know.  Was anyone able to objectively look at that guy and see a future Cy Young award winner?  A top of the rotation starter?  All Star?  Wins leader, strikeout leader?  ERA leader?  IP leader?   

No, no, no, no, no, no, and no.

What'd Gausman do especially well while he was here?  How is he any different than someone else's 3 or 4 starter?  Why's everyone around here so butthurt about losing a #3 starter for a team that probably won't be any good for the next 2-3 seasons and is going through a rebuild?  Why is the Kevin Gausman trade such a stupid trade when there's absolutely nothing unique about him?

I saw a guy with a hard fastball that was straight as an arrow with spotty command and spotty command of his secondary pitches.  Yeah, he's got an impressive arm but so do a lot of others, guys in the high 90s aren't hard to find these days.  Sometimes he looked great, sometimes he didn't.  That's the definition of a #3 starter.  

People are so afraid that it'll be another Arrieta situation.  Whatever.  First, let's stop pretending like we're the only fanbase to ever give up on a guy to go on and have success elsewhere.  I'm pretty sure every fanbase outside of the Yankees and Sox mopes around with this woe is us crap and thinking that they're the ones that have a unique problem of giving up on players who go on to have good careers elsewhere.  Just.  Stop.  We're not special snowflakes like we think we are.

The thing about Arrieta is that it wasn't ever going to happen here for him.  So if Gausman goes to to Atlanta and wins a Cy Young, we'll know that it wasn't going to happen here for him, either.  And we'll know what we've known all along, that this franchise has sucked for years and player development, especially pitching.  So if we can agree that it would never have happened here for Arrieta and never would have happened here for Gausman, why's everyone pearl clutching?  

I really don't get it, someone clue me in.  Why's everyone so petrified of another Arrieta situation when we all know Arrieta never could have achieved those heights here?  What's the outcome you'd have preferred, holding onto Arrieta and just screwing him up more?  So what if Gausman goes to the Braves and lights it up, he wasn't going to do it here, right?  Adair, Peterson, Wallace, McDowell all couldn't get through to him and bring to life this magical pitching God that the OH braintrust has been glorifying for years.

The only measure of hope would be to hire a pitching coach in the offseason that could have made a difference for him.  That's it.  And hope isn't a plan.

[Moose Milligan]

24 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Let’s be clear.   For his career Gausman was 39-51 with an ERA+ of 100 for the Orioles.     I’m not going to call that bad, but good is kind of generous IMO.    He was a decent starting pitcher for us, who had his ups and downs.   That’s as far as I’d go.    

I'll follow that up with 39-51 on teams that were mostly winners, too. 

I know, I know, I know, someone's gonna pull out their WAR trump card like they're all high and mighty, just save it.  4.1 WAR on a playoff team where he went 9-12.  Nice ERA+ of 119 but the rest of the seasons have been pretty underwhelming.

[foxfield]

17 hours ago, Frobby said:

Let’s be clear.   For his career Gausman was 39-51 with an ERA+ of 100 for the Orioles.     I’m not going to call that bad, but good is kind of generous IMO.    He was a decent starting pitcher for us, who had his ups and downs.   That’s as far as I’d go.    

This is 100% correct.  And yet for most here it is not going to matter.  Like the one game in Atlanta, some will see Gausman at his best and forever wonder why THAT guy didn't produce.  He was erratic here and a bit like Charlie Brown.  Every time he seemed to be coming around the corner.....(he's really going to kick that football this time).....he fell back down...(Lucy pulled the football).

But if he finds consistency elsewhere...it's gonna hurt.

[Moose Milligan]

47 minutes ago, foxfield said:

But if he finds consistency elsewhere...it's gonna hurt.

It's only going to hurt because the Orioles couldn't get it out of him.  But as I said previously, they never were.  So what's the alternative, just hold onto guys and not have them produce here because we're so afraid of having them go elsewhere and producing?  It's my hope that they'll figure out how to develop pitching but there's no way to tell that they'll be able to.

Maybe the Braves can tease it out of him, but he's 3-10 with a 6.33 ERA in interleague, it's not like he's performed well against the NL.  Granted some of those games came in Baltimore where the opponent got to use a DH.   

[Bahama O's Fan]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

It's only going to hurt because the Orioles couldn't get it out of him.  But as I said previously, they never were.  So what's the alternative, just hold onto guys and not have them produce here because we're so afraid of having them go elsewhere and producing?  It's my hope that they'll figure out how to develop pitching but there's no way to tell that they'll be able to.

Maybe the Braves can tease it out of him, but he's 3-10 with a 6.33 ERA in interleague, it's not like he's performed well against the NL.  Granted some of those games came in Baltimore where the opponent got to use a DH.   

What are his stats in NL parks?

[Moose Milligan]

13 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

What are his stats in NL parks?

Not sure, I'm on baseball reference and I don't that listed under the splits.  You can see what he's done in individual parks but it's jumbled together with AL parks.  I'd do some math and figure it out because that's a good question and one worth knowing the answer to, but I've gotta dip outta here.

Here's the link:  https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=gausmke01&year=Career&t=p

Real quick look, 4.50 ERA at the Mets, 7.20 ERA in LA, 6.75 in Washington.  These are obviously really small sample sizes though, thats why I looked at interleague on the whole.

[weams]

I am liking Encarnacion.  

[foxfield]

44 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

It's only going to hurt because the Orioles couldn't get it out of him.  But as I said previously, they never were.  So what's the alternative, just hold onto guys and not have them produce here because we're so afraid of having them go elsewhere and producing?  It's my hope that they'll figure out how to develop pitching but there's no way to tell that they'll be able to.

Maybe the Braves can tease it out of him, but he's 3-10 with a 6.33 ERA in interleague, it's not like he's performed well against the NL.  Granted some of those games came in Baltimore where the opponent got to use a DH.   

No I don't think they were either.....the alternative is to figure out what we are doing that isn't working.  I don't have the answer, but we need to do better.

[ReclaimTheCrown]

48 minutes ago, weams said:

I am liking Encarnacion.  

I am liking him too, though I’m concerned how often I see his name on the bottom of the box score after having committed an error. He has 31 errors this year, which is obviously a ton. Not sure the nature of most of these (throwing, fielding, etc), but hopefully he can clean it up.