Grade the Gausman Deal

[MurphDogg]

11 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

It has nothing to do with me being an Orioles fan.  I've seen Archer pitch many times and have come away not all that impressed.

I saw him take batting practice once before an O's-Rays game (the Rays were about to play in an NL park). Archer hit one out and ran around the bases with his arms raised, it was pretty cool. I hope he hits one in a real game now that he is in the NL and does the same thing.

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

It has nothing to do with me being an Orioles fan.  I've seen Archer pitch many times and have come away not all that impressed.

Vs. Baltimore: 6-10, 5.07 ERA, 1.46 WHIP.     If you are judging Archer based off watching him face the Orioles over the years, it’s no wonder you’re not impressed.

[wildbillhiccup]

28 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

I always thought that Gausman was a better pickup than Archer.   I'm just not that impressed with Archer.    It's nice that he's under control through 2021, but I just see him as an average starter.

Getting back to the purpose of this discussion...I'm really not that thrilled with the return for Gausman.    None of the players acquired (though I think it's a bit premature on Encarnacion) appear to be guys who will be productive major leaguers. 

Ok, I've been beating the "they got hosed in the trade" drum for quite awhile now, but this comment is pretty ridiculous. Archer IS a better better and he's under control for an extra year. When he's on his stuff (in particular his slider) is filthy. If you want to argue that the gap between Archer and Gausman is smaller than people are making it out to be, that's fine, but I don't think anyone actually thinks Gausman is a better pitcher. 

[clapdiddy]

2 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Ok, I've been beating the "they got hosed in the trade" drum for quite awhile now, but this comment is pretty ridiculous. Archer IS a better better and he's under control for an extra year. When he's on his stuff (in particular his slider) is filthy. If you want to argue that the gap between Archer and Gausman is smaller than people are making it out to be, that's fine, but I don't think anyone actually thinks Gausman is a better pitcher. 

Again, as Frobby pointed out, maybe my bias is tainted by his performance against the Orioles.   I have to admit, a lot of it is based on that.   I'm sure he's had a few good games against the Orioles as well, but that doesn't change my opinion.  His last three seasons (including this one) aren't really that great.   

Now, the extra year of control is nice.   I just don't think he's the better deal for right now, and he is trending DOWN.

[wildbillhiccup]

1 hour ago, clapdiddy said:

Again, as Frobby pointed out, maybe my bias is tainted by his performance against the Orioles.   I have to admit, a lot of it is based on that.   I'm sure he's had a few good games against the Orioles as well, but that doesn't change my opinion.  His last three seasons (including this one) aren't really that great.   

Now, the extra year of control is nice.   I just don't think he's the better deal for right now, and he is trending DOWN.

We're not judging him alone, we're comparing him to Gausman. And everything (numbers, eye test, etc.) support the claim that he's better than Gausman. I've seen Archer be virtually unhittable before. I can't say the same about Gausman. 

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

We're not judging him alone, we're comparing him to Gausman. And everything (numbers, eye test, etc.) support the claim that he's better than Gausman. I've seen Archer be virtually unhittable before. I can't say the same about Gausman. 

No question Archer has been the better pitcher.    But the question of who will be the better pitcher in the future isn’t as clear.   Archer’s two years older and has far more mileage on his arm.   He’s been a 4.20 ERA pitcher the last three years and could deteriorate from there.   Gausman’s a 4.07 ERA pitcher in that period.   So, no guarantees going forward.  

[wildbillhiccup]

19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

No question Archer has been the better pitcher.    But the question of who will be the better pitcher in the future isn’t as clear.   Archer’s two years older and has far more mileage on his arm.   He’s been a 4.20 ERA pitcher the last three years and could deteriorate from there.   Gausman’s a 4.07 ERA pitcher in that period.   So, no guarantees going forward.  

That really wasn't the question. It was who had been the better pitcher and was more valuable prior to being traded. That was clearly Archer. He's been better and he's under contract for an extra year. Gausman's younger, but thats' the only check in his column. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Gausman has a longer career. 

[capyy]

Top of the 5th he's got another shutout going, then gets in a little trouble. A single and an error gives him first a third with one out, and the pitcher coming up to bat to save him. Then, he almost walks the pitcher. Luckily gets him to ground out. Then he gives up a 2-run double to the leadoff hitter. 

I think the wheels fall off of this eventually. Tougher lineups, playoff pressure.

[24fps]

Archer vs. Gausman.  Certainly more interesting than Orioles vs. Royals.  Another solid start for Gausman.  6IP 1ER.  Archer's been better though, taking a no-hitter into the sixth which Swanson just ruined with a double.  Archer has dominated - clearly the better pitcher tonight but the O's still got shortchanged and not by a little.

[Cumberbundy]

On 8/27/2018 at 10:22 AM, wildbillhiccup said:

Ok, I've been beating the "they got hosed in the trade" drum for quite awhile now, but this comment is pretty ridiculous. Archer IS a better better and he's under control for an extra year. When he's on his stuff (in particular his slider) is filthy. If you want to argue that the gap between Archer and Gausman is smaller than people are making it out to be, that's fine, but I don't think anyone actually thinks Gausman is a better pitcher. 

I think Gausman is a better asset to have moving forward. 

[Cumberbundy]

On 8/27/2018 at 8:39 AM, o'sfansince1970 said:

I know it is the NL East and not the AL East but I hope someone within the organization is paying attention to what Gausman is doing differently in Atl. Let's learn something that can be used going forward. Beginners luck? Maybe.

Now apply that logic to Glasnow v Archer since the trade. 

[weams]

 

 

I think you might feel this. I believe you might have felt this before the divergence of their season. But no one actually felt that way other than Gausman fanboys like myself. 

6 hours ago, Cy Bundy said:

Now apply that logic to Glasnow v Archer since the trade. 

 

6 hours ago, Cy Bundy said:

I think Gausman is a better asset to have moving forward. 

[Flash- bd]

This one's pretty clearly an F, isn't it? Not sure what we were doing. Baffling especially because the returns for Machado and Britton were quite good compared to what could be expected, IMO. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Flash- bd said:

This one's pretty clearly an F, isn't it? Not sure what we were doing. Baffling especially because the returns for Machado and Britton were quite good compared to what could be expected, IMO. 

Can't grade it an F until we see what they do with the International pool money.  If they spend all 2.75M like they did the 750K than go right ahead.

[Flash- bd]

Even if they spend it on Víctor Víctor, is it even a good enough return?