Orioles Spend 250k of their International Money ( Report that it was $750k)

[LookitsPuck]

5 hours ago, Finisher said:

The only thing that really makes sense is blocking Atlanta from trading that 2.5 million to Miami or New York, which maybe puts them in position to land VVM.

Miami was already (and is currently, yeah?) in a position to land VVM.

[tntoriole]

40 minutes ago, drjohnnyfeva said:

 

I get it, but insert same "organization."  We know who's in charge.  Do either of you really think that Dumpster Dan can do anything without some "other" approval?!  Especially now.  All I'm saying is that this is an organization that has a "seat of the pants" management style.  It never works out well.

Although, there are later comments after ours that argue that this is some kind of precursor or "MLB Back Scratching" to some other more significant move.  Let's see. 

I maintain that the whole system under "the family" is dysfunctional and clueless.  I hope I'm wrong.

Yes, who DO you think is in charge?  Do you think an 89 year old aging Angelos had anything to do with any of these decisions this summer?  I do not.  So referring to whatever was done by Mr. Angelos for the past decades any longer, in my view, is just the same old excusing of Duquette as a completely innocent pawn and victim...which I have never believed, not for one moment even from the get go.  Yes, Angelos was involved in many micromanaging and bad decisions.  But Dan Duquette also made plenty of bad decisions ALL ON HiS OWN authority and most dumpster dives were all his own, imho.  Because he believes in that method, not because Angelos forced him to.   Amd, no, I do not believe that John or Lou are requiring a sign off on every dumpster diving move he has made...maybe the major trades, although I believe that Dan made all the summer deals on his own and just presented them as is to John or Lou who then rubberstamped them. 

Dan schemed his own premature escape from an organization that gave him a GM job and a pass back from exile into MLB and publically humiliated his boss in the process.  So if he wants to know why Angelos stopped listening to him after that debacle, if he did, then Dan has only to look in the mirror as to who was responsible for the snafu. 

Dan did good work prior to the winter offseason of Toronto dating.  Since then, his work has been garbage in my view and he needs to go.  Thanks for your service but we need a different architect. 

 

[LookitsPuck]

6 hours ago, foxfield said:

In the grand scheme of things, I tend to agree with Frobby, Weams and jsbearr here.  But the other side does have a point.  While this move is really nothing in the overall in terms of the rebuild.  It is very hard to make sense of the moving of the right to spend $750k.  I would agree with Can of Corn that I would rather see that right expire unused than give any portion away without getting something for it.

At the very least, it is poor optics and that is not ideal given the "news" that the Orioles are changing how they do things.  But I would still say, overall, let's see how the rest of this season plays out.  There is a tremendous amount of work to do and there will be pain ahead. It will take many successful moves to right this ship.  This one was never going to do it...but it wont stop it either. 

Personally I'd rather overspend to high hell on VVM, especially because of the Cuban connection to FL and the huge advantage that gives any FL based team...see: Miami and the Rays.

I mean...the O's acquired $250k and gave Brad Brach up for a bag of balls...only to turn it around (and add more to it) and get really the rough equivalent of a future career minor league player. It seems like an unnecessary waste of negotiating time and brainpower. Coupled with how poorly the Gausman trade was/is...just continued headscratching. Almost feels that Duquette has a trading addiction and just wants to keep doing it regardless of whether it makes sense or not. Because I think it's unanimous that everybody (nearly everybody?) doesn't see the reason to acquire this particular player.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

Personally I'd rather overspend to high hell on VVM, especially because of the Cuban connection to FL and the huge advantage that gives any FL based team...see: Miami and the Rays.

I mean...the O's acquired $250k and gave Brad Brach up for a bag of balls...only to turn it around (and add more to it) and get really the rough equivalent of a future career minor league player. It seems like an unnecessary waste of negotiating time and brainpower. Coupled with how poorly the Gausman trade was/is...just continued headscratching. Almost feels that Duquette has a trading addiction and just wants to keep doing it regardless of whether it makes sense or not. Because I think it's unanimous that everybody (nearly everybody?) doesn't see the reason to acquire this particular player.

What notable Cuban immigrates have the Rays signed? 

I don't think any team has signed a particularly large percentage of the Cubans that have come over to play.  Am I wrong in that?

[LookitsPuck]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

What notable Cuban immigrates have the Rays signed? 

I don't think any team has signed a particularly large percentage of the Cubans that have come over to play.  Am I wrong in that?

I'm not sure what (if any) notable Cuban immigrates the Rays have signed. I'm just saying that proximity and community are huge benefits to Cuban people. And FL has that in spades compared to Baltimore. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

I'm not sure what (if any) notable Cuban immigrates the Rays have signed. I'm just saying that proximity and community are huge benefits to Cuban people. And FL has that in spades compared to Baltimore. 

Doesn't it follow that if the Rays had a huge advantage that they would utilize it?  No one thinks they are poorly run right?

Have the Marlins signed a lot of premium Cuban talent with their huge advantage?

[LookitsPuck]

15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Doesn't it follow that if the Rays had a huge advantage that they would utilize it?  No one thinks they are poorly run right?

Have the Marlins signed a lot of premium Cuban talent with their huge advantage?

No, it doesn't necessarily follow. For any of your comments. Especially with Miami having new ownership.

The point is that there are 3 teams narrowed down just due to financial flexibility when it comes to international money that could reasonably be assumed to be landing spots for VVM.

And if we look at the variety of factors at play it's:

• The O's who have done virtually nothing when it comes to immigrates from Cuban
• The O's have a huge international money allotment
• The Marlins and the Rays have a large international allotment
• The Marlins and the Rays have the Cuban connection for being in FL with huge Cuban communities and proximity
• The Marlins have new ownership and are showing big interest in VVM and Cuban players (see: Sandy Gaston)
• Each team offers fast tracks to the majors and starting OF positions in the future

That's all I'm saying. Just because a team/location has an advantage doesn't mean they'll *always* *in every situation* take advantage of it. But it *does* mean that they have an additional bonus reason that the O's (and Baltimore) does not.

I don't know what VVM will do. If he wants nothing but a big paycheck, he'll go with Baltimore. If he wants a slightly less sized paycheck and Cuban communities/proximity, he'll end up w/ Miami. Especially because Miami just tried to land Sandy Gaston.

[Can_of_corn]

I don't think there is much, if any, evidence that shows Cuban players have or will favor Tampa or Miami.

They appear to mostly sign with whomever offers them the most money.

As for Gaston,  the O's having Diaz in the organization is more of an advantage than the Marlins backing out of a deal with Gaston. 

 

I will say that on the surface your argument makes sense, just isn't much evidence to support it.

[Ripken]

Maybe Zoellner is really 18 and every baseball reference site in the world accidentally had the same age typo.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Ripken said:

Maybe Zoellner is really 18 and every baseball reference site in the world accidentally had the same age typo.

Must have been a heck of a player to make his college team at 14.

[Ripken]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Must have been a heck of a player to make his college team at 14.

Great.  That's the kind of talent we need to build around then.  And a bargain, too, for only $750K in fake money.

[Tx Oriole]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Must have been a heck of a player to make his college team at 14.

750K? The whole damn amount went to Zoellner? 

[Can_of_corn]

26 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

750K? The whole damn amount went to Zoellner? 

Near as we can tell.

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, LookitsPuck said:

Personally I'd rather overspend to high hell on VVM, especially because of the Cuban connection to FL and the huge advantage that gives any FL based team...see: Miami and the Rays.

I mean...the O's acquired $250k and gave Brad Brach up for a bag of balls...only to turn it around (and add more to it) and get really the rough equivalent of a future career minor league player. It seems like an unnecessary waste of negotiating time and brainpower. Coupled with how poorly the Gausman trade was/is...just continued headscratching. Almost feels that Duquette has a trading addiction and just wants to keep doing it regardless of whether it makes sense or not. Because I think it's unanimous that everybody (nearly everybody?) doesn't see the reason to acquire this particular player.

This is all true...except your vision of the Gausman trade which I'll set aside and grant that we did not get the best prospects by including a salary dump....which was obviously important to the O's.

But we still have enough to get VVM unless he simply doesn't want to come here at any price.  Of course if that is true then my opinion of Gausman trade is different.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, foxfield said:

This is all true...except your vision of the Gausman trade which I'll set aside and grant that we did not get the best prospects by including a salary dump....which was obviously important to the O's.

But we still have enough to get VVM unless he simply doesn't want to come here at any price.  Of course if that is true then my opinion of Gausman trade is different.

We don't if he wants 750K more than we can currently offer.