Orioles Spend 250k of their International Money ( Report that it was $750k)

[baltfan]

46 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I am not vehemently opposed to trading some slot money.  But not for this guy.  I see no.reason why any team would want to add him to their organization.

The problem is that there isn’t much left internationally.  So, while I am sure the Orioles would like to trade their international money for better players, teams aren’t going to be willing to give up much for those dollars given that most good players have already signed. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, baltfan said:

The problem is that there isn’t much left internationally.  So, while I am sure the Orioles would like to trade their international money for better players, teams aren’t going to be willing to give up much for those dollars given that most good players have already signed. 

Two points:

1. The slots don't expire at the end of the month, they are good until the end of June.  Something could come up between now and then.  Another Cuban for instance.
2. Is there really any difference between letting the slots expire and picking up a player like Zoellner?

[baltfan]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Two points:

1. The slots don't expire at the end of the month, they are good until the end of June.  Something could come up between now and then.  Another Cuban for instance.
2. Is there really any difference between letting the slots expire and picking up a player like Zoellner?

1.  While this is true, It would have to be pretty soon since any Cubans take time to establish citizenship.  Also, if they are close to the deadline, within a couple months, would be smart to just wait. 

2.  Something is better than nothing.  Admittedly this guy doesn’t look like much. Guys do come out of nowhere sometimes or maybe we just are helping our relationship with the Phillies apwhk maybe help us later. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, baltfan said:

1.  While this is true, It would have to be pretty soon since any Cubans take time to establish citizenship.  Also, if they are close to the deadline, within a couple months, would be smart to just wait. 

2.  Something is better than nothing.  Admittedly this guy doesn’t look like much. Guys do come out of nowhere sometimes or maybe we just are helping our relationship with the Phillies apwhk maybe help us later. 

Good chance Dan is gone when his contract expires right?  You think any good will to extend to the next regime?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, baltfan said:

1.  While this is true, It would have to be pretty soon since any Cubans take time to establish citizenship.  Also, if they are close to the deadline, within a couple months, would be smart to just wait. 

2.  Something is better than nothing.  Admittedly this guy doesn’t look like much. Guys do come out of nowhere sometimes or maybe we just are helping our relationship with the Phillies apwhk maybe help us later. 

What if it's a 750K type player and not a 4M type player?  Why would they be better off waiting?

[drjohnnyfeva]

3 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Yes, who DO you think is in charge?  Do you think an 89 year old aging Angelos had anything to do with any of these decisions this summer?  I do not.  So referring to whatever was done by Mr. Angelos for the past decades any longer, in my view, is just the same old excusing of Duquette as a completely innocent pawn and victim...which I have never believed, not for one moment even from the get go.  Yes, Angelos was involved in many micromanaging and bad decisions.  But Dan Duquette also made plenty of bad decisions ALL ON HiS OWN authority and most dumpster dives were all his own, imho.  Because he believes in that method, not because Angelos forced him to.   Amd, no, I do not believe that John or Lou are requiring a sign off on every dumpster diving move he has made...maybe the major trades, although I believe that Dan made all the summer deals on his own and just presented them as is to John or Lou who then rubberstamped them. 

Dan schemed his own premature escape from an organization that gave him a GM job and a pass back from exile into MLB and publically humiliated his boss in the process.  So if he wants to know why Angelos stopped listening to him after that debacle, if he did, then Dan has only to look in the mirror as to who was responsible for the snafu. 

Dan did good work prior to the winter offseason of Toronto dating.  Since then, his work has been garbage in my view and he needs to go.  Thanks for your service but we need a different architect. 

 

Your ax to grind is with Dan, mine is with an organization that has allowed or limited Dan to do parts of his design as constrained by their "oversight."

I think we agree that change is in order.

[jerios55]

25 minutes ago, Malike said:

There was a reason this deal was made. It was likely not done because they like the player, but there was a reason and who knows what it is. We can run up 100 pages speculating, though. It's what we do here. We get outraged without knowing facts and make 200 page threads.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bs-sp-orioles-international-bonus-trades-20170802-story.html

The O's traded for Magnifico and traded him before he every played.

Jason Wheeler played 13 games at Norfolk and was released.

Katz struggling in AA, not on top 50.

They have made a bunch of moves like this.  If these happen for other reasons, we sure aren't collecting.  I think it's comical to think this isn't just a player they like more than anyone else.

There are positives like Fry and Yefry, but listed as 30/33 on Luke's op 50 list.  Hardly guys to feel good about.

And yes, they still have the most money for VVM.  That is true.

[tntoriole]

45 minutes ago, drjohnnyfeva said:

Your ax to grind is with Dan, mine is with an organization that has allowed or limited Dan to do parts of his design as constrained by their "oversight."

I think we agree that change is in order.

Yes, on that we agree.  But the last time I looked,  owners of businesses seldom fire themselves.  

[drjohnnyfeva]

3 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Yes, on that we agree.  But the last time I looked,  owners of businesses seldom fire themselves.  

Indeed... and then there's that.

[atomic]

12 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Yes, on that we agree.  But the last time I looked,  owners of businesses seldom fire themselves.  

I just wish we had an NBA, NHL and MLS team and then we could spend more of our year not thinking about all the dumb things Orioles ownership has done this time. 

[tntoriole]

4 minutes ago, drjohnnyfeva said:

Indeed... and then there's that.

I really just think Dan has been keeping an eye out for his next gig from the time he got back in with us...which he was fortunate to get in the first place...and that if he was too blind not to see  that Angelos would completely go off and never trust him again once he found out about his dalliance with another owner and Toronto, no less, then he is too blind to run this organization,   He was judged disloyal by Angelos, and, like some other billionaires I know, he did not take that sort of thing very well, 

But the old man is done.  The real issue is whether the sons trust Dan and see him as some here see him or do they see it the same way the old man likely did. We shall find out soon. 

[drjohnnyfeva]

35 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

I really just think Dan has been keeping an eye out for his next gig from the time he got back in with us...which he was fortunate to get in the first place...and that if he was too blind not to see  that Angelos would completely go off and never trust him again once he found out about his dalliance with another owner and Toronto, no less, then he is too blind to run this organization,   He was judged disloyal by Angelos, and, like some other billionaires I know, he did not take that sort of thing very well, 

But the old man is done.  The real issue is whether the sons trust Dan and see him as some here see him or do they see it the same way the old man likely did. We shall find out soon. 

See, now there's much I disagree with here. 

I won't deny that we seemingly gave DD a chance to get back in, but I don't think he was a lesser choice as compared to other candidates in any way after separating from McPhail as you seem to imply.  I can't even name any of them...  In fact, I think that he was maybe the best choice and one of the really good decisions that the organization has taken.  I mean there was no one knocking our doors down for the job.

What made this relationship potentially toxic was ownership's feeling of betrayal after Toronto expressed interest in woooooing him away.   It was reported that most clubs let the guy go and replace from within.  It was always the way things were sort of "handled" in MLB according news I read.   Particularly, when the new job was a promotion from what he had been doing.  A gentlemanly... "Good luck, Dan.  Enjoy your new job."  That's not how it was handled, apparently.  Not this time.

Ownership, Old Pete, specifically, "I don't know why our guy is being brought up as the heir apparent in another organization, but he is under contract here and we expect him to fulfill the expectations of his contract that he signed with us."

That's a combative tone.  If they didn't respect his judgement - at least a little - wouldn't they have cut him loose?  This was Old Pete being upset that a guy he owned didn't say, "I'm not interested."  So the toxicity began, imo.  Brady and his six pack enter and worse decisions ensue.

The last couple years seems to have shown that he has been undermined... distrusted.  I don't know, that's my take.  I'm trying to piece together an opinion from message boards, rumors, and the Sun - which now sheds little light on anything.

I still think it boils down to ownership making ad hoc decisions rather than allowing the expertise of the organization they agreed to put in place do what it was hired to do.

 

edit... proofreading...

[tntoriole]

3 hours ago, drjohnnyfeva said:

See, now there's much I disagree with here. 

I won't deny that we seemingly gave DD a chance to get back in, but I don't think he was a lesser choice as compared to other candidates in any way after separating from McPhail as you seem to imply.  I can't even name any of them...  In fact, I think that he was maybe the best choice and one of the really good decisions that the organization has taken.  I mean there was no one knocking our doors down for the job.

What made this relationship potentially toxic was ownership's feeling of betrayal after Toronto expressed interest in woooooing him away.   It was reported that most clubs let the guy go and replace from within.  It was always the way things were sort of "handled" in MLB according news I read.   Particularly, when the new job was a promotion from what he had been doing.  A gentlemanly... "Good luck, Dan.  Enjoy your new job."  That's not how it was handled, apparently.  Not this time.

Ownership, Old Pete, specifically, "I don't know why our guy is being brought up as the heir apparent in another organization, but he is under contract here and we expect him to fulfill the expectations of his contract that he signed with us."

That's a combative tone.  If they didn't respect his judgement - at least a little - wouldn't they have cut him loose?  This was Old Pete being upset that a guy he owned didn't say, "I'm not interested."  So the toxicity began, imo.  Brady and his six pack enter and worse decisions ensue.

The last couple years seems to have shown that he has been undermined... distrusted.  I don't know, that's my take.  I'm trying to piece together an opinion from message boards, rumors, and the Sun - which now sheds little light on anything.

I still think it boils down to ownership making ad hoc decisions rather than allowing the expertise of the organization they agreed to put in place do what it was hired to do.

 

edit... proofreading...

But this is my point...if you would have asked anybody on this board “hey, do you think if you are working for Peter Angelos, not some other owner, but Peter Angelos, do you think he is just going to be pleased as punch for you to take another job with your division rival the winter after you won the division?”  No, either Dan was just dumb, which he is not...or he just thought, I really don’t care about my relationship with Angelos, I am just looking out for number one.   

If I had been Angelos, I would have waited till the Toronto gig was gone, then fired Duquette.  But Angelos does not like paying employees not to work.  So instead, Dan just lost any trust or influence he might have had prior to that dalliance.  Because he was not loyal to an owner that everyone in the universe knew demanded it..whether Dan liked it or not, whether it was fair or not, is irrelevant...Angelos demands it. 

If Duquette was such a baseball genius, why did Boston can him and no other organization except ours hire him for 10 years?  In part, it was likely due to some of the abrasive aspects of his personality and getting along with the ownership.   Would I want different ownership?  Sure.  But I still think that there are much better GM options out there than Duquette.   It is time for a new hand of cards.  If John and Lou are the “new owners”, then they should pick their guy. 

[Emory Eagle]

4 hours ago, atomic said:

I just wish we had an NBA, NHL and MLS team and then we could spend more of our year not thinking about all the dumb things Orioles ownership has done this time. 

Off topic but agreed. Would love to support a Baltimore MLS team. I wonder if that’s possible in the not too distant future?

[tntoriole]

5 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Good chance Dan is gone when his contract expires right?  You think any good will to extend to the next regime?

No, but maybe it goes with Dan as he looks to other organizations.