The fans should not be voting

[Mad Mark]

I didn't watch last night (and this morning)'s All-Star game. No regrets at all.

[GeorgiaBird]

I am not a real big All-Star fan, but as someone who watched more than he expected to, you missed a dang good game. That bases-loaded, no out escape by Cook was about as good as it gets, and Tejada's play that inning was fantastic.

[davearm]

Well dave, it's an ALL-STAR game, not an ALL-POPULAR game.

Explain the difference.

star –adjective Celebrated, prominent, or distinguished; preeminent: a star basketball player; a star reporter

star –adjective Outstanding or famous, especially in performing something: a star researcher; a star figure skater

Those definitions are all loosely synonymous with popularity and notoriety; reputation too.

Nothing about "most talented" or "best stats" is implied, as far as I can see.

[orayole]

Some of these players are stars like Paris Hilton is a star.

[Camden_yardbird]

How about caps on the number of players from one team. 2 starters and a pitcher or 3 total.

[ElToro75]

You got a better idea? The system is fine. As you said, there is no perfect system. The writers screw up when they vote for things. The coaches & players screw up when they vote for things. I guess you could have a computerized system like they use to figure out the college football rankings but I'm sure there would be complaints about that too.

I wouldn't say this is a better idea but here it goes:

Let the fans vote just like they do now, including the 10th Man (or whatever they called it), but instead of selecting the starters of the game the top vote getter would be guaranteed a roster spot thats all.

The manager would then fill out the roster, but have the ability to select the starters.

The players would get to vote in one player, and all the managers would get to vote in one as well.

[BaltBird 24]

Some of these players are stars like Paris Hilton is a star.

I think that's giving Paris Hilton a little too much credit. Some of these players who didn't deserve to be there can atleast say that at some point in time they were worthy of being there. Paris Hilton can never come up with a moment that she can ever really say that she should have been a star unless it came down to spreading her legs.

[byrdz]

I'm in the 'give it to the guy who deserves it based on current performance' camp. I don't mind seeing a no doubt HOFer like Manny going either though.

Honestly, I feel like most fans just vote for one or two players they really like and the rest of the ballot is filled out with names that sound the most familiar to them. On top of that, you got teams like the Yanks and Red Sox large fan bases skewing votes.

Also, the fans select the position players and the coaches, players, and managers select the pitchers. Judging by current performances among the two groups, it's pretty clear they go by a different set of criteria. Not saying one is wrong just that one leans more towards current performance. I suspect if it were reverse you would be seeing a lot of very high scoring games.

[Hallas]

Fans aren't allowed to like an icon like Cal Ripken unless/until he surpasses some arbitrary statistical threshold?

I don't have a problem with Ichiro getting in - he's an icon in Japan and still a great player who's a lot of fun to watch. I don't have a problem with the shadow of Cal Ripken getting voted in during his swan song.

I have a problem with Boston fans filling the ballots so that about the 12th best catcher in the game, and a player who is never going to sniff Cooperstown except to congratulate his buddies during their induction ceremonies, gets voted in to play over players that are far and away more deserving of he honor. The same applies for Fukudome.

I don't expect the fan voting to be spot-on. I do expect it to be reasonably close except in exceptional circumstances. Varitek and Fukudome making their teams as starters tells me that it's not in the same zip code. As such, it's time to rethink the current system of online balloting.

[GeorgiaBird]

I have a problem with Boston fans filling the ballots so that about the 12th best catcher in the game, and a player who is never going to sniff Cooperstown except to congratulate his buddies during their induction ceremonies, gets voted in to play over players that are far and away more deserving of he honor.

The players, and not the fans, voted for Varitek.

[orioles119]

Explain the difference.

star –adjective Celebrated, prominent, or distinguished; preeminent: a star basketball player; a star reporter

star –adjective Outstanding or famous, especially in performing something: a star researcher; a star figure skater

Those definitions are all loosely synonymous with popularity and notoriety; reputation too.

Nothing about "most talented" or "best stats" is implied, as far as I can see.

Well dave... there should be a statistical component of selecting the All-Star. If Varitek was selected by the players, fine. Pedroia however wasn't - but his stats warrant his selection to a point.

[davearm]

I don't have a problem with Ichiro getting in - he's an icon in Japan and still a great player who's a lot of fun to watch. I don't have a problem with the shadow of Cal Ripken getting voted in during his swan song.

I have a problem with Boston fans filling the ballots so that about the 12th best catcher in the game, and a player who is never going to sniff Cooperstown except to congratulate his buddies during their induction ceremonies, gets voted in to play over players that are far and away more deserving of he honor. The same applies for Fukudome.

I don't expect the fan voting to be spot-on. I do expect it to be reasonably close except in exceptional circumstances. Varitek and Fukudome making their teams as starters tells me that it's not in the same zip code. As such, it's time to rethink the current system of online balloting.

There are certainly several AL catchers having better seasons than Varitek, but let's not get carried away here. It's not like AL catcher is some cornucopia overflowing with star power.

Most of the other choices still kinda suck (or have been hurt, in the case of the next logical candidate, Posada).

I mean really, why get riled up over Gerald Laird and AJ Pierzynski getting snubbed?

[Migrant Redbird]

The problem is easy to solve. Each team is required to have a representative, right? Fans don't really know the rest of the players around their league all that well, but they do know who they like on their own team. Let the fans who attend games vote to select the player they want to represent their team and let the players/managers/coaches select the starters. Then let the all star manager fill out his team with the kinds of players he thinks gives him the best chance to win.

I know it's another thread, but there's also an easy solution for the problem of extra inning games. On the Saturday morning prior to the All Star game, let the All Star manager and his coaches choose 5 "reserve" players who would attend the game, participate in all the ceremonies, get introduced to the fans, but would play only if the game went into extra innings or if another player was hurt. The 5 "reserve" players would be 2 starting pitchers who had pitched on either Thursday or Friday night, so that they could each go 5-8 innings if necessary; 1 catcher; 1 "slugger", and 1 utility player.

If we'd had that this year, Clint Hurdle wouldn't have needed to play a pitcher short after Lincecum went to the hospital; he could have activated 1 of his reserve starters.

Kyle Lohse pitched last Friday and raised his record to 11-2, but didn't get selected to the All Star game. Since this would have been his first selection, I suspect that he would have been overjoyed to be recognized as a reserve, while his manager would have liked knowing that Lohse wouldn't pitch unless the game went into extra innings.

How was it that the major league home run hitter was left off the team and missed the home run derby? If Ryan Howard had been added as a reserve on Saturday morning, he could have been a late addition to the derby. I'm sure there were a couple times in extra innings when Clint Hurdle would liked to have brought Howard in to pinch hit, especially since he got hot just before the break.

Cardinals utility infielder Aaron Miles is hitting .317 at the break and seems like a good candidate this year to be an all star reserve utility player, but I have in mind someone more like Chone Figgins, Craig Biggio, or Robin Yount (who made only 3 all star teams) -- guys who can play superior defense someplace and be adequate anywhere. Miles is adequate at 2nd and barely tolerable at 3rd, but really shouldn't ever play shortstop outside of a national emergency.

The reserve catcher would typically be chosen more for his defensive skills than his bat -- I don't think there's that much difference between a .250 hitter and a .350 hitter in just one game anyhow. You'd want a guy who wouldn't be giving the game away with passed balls in extra innings, more than you'd want the extra offense. If you really wanted Mike Piazza, you could always make him your reserve slugger.

The All Star managers would enter the game with the understanding that playing time would be split between the starter and the backup at each position -- amount to be at the discretion of the manager except that each would get at least 1 plate appearance. Three starting pitchers would normally pitch 2 innings each, unless the manager needed to bring in a reliever or the game was in an NL park and the manager needed to pinch hit for his pitcher. Of the 3 top closers, the best would be reserved for a save opportunity while the other 2 would pitch the 7th and 8th.

That would still leave the managers 4-5 pitchers on whom they could call before they would need to use their reserves. The whole idea of the reserves would be to have a couple starters who could pitch into the 20th inning or later in a worst case scenario, but wouldn't pitch at all unless there were a lot of extra innings.

In a scenario like Tuesday night, Mariano Rivera would have gone ahead and pitched the top of the 9th, because the home team can never have a save situation in extra innings. Lidge would not have pitched at all, because the NL never had a save situation. As it was, Lidge loosened up 5 or 6 times in anticipation of a save opportunity, but finally entered the game in the bottom of the 15th as the last man standing. No wonder he surrendered the winning run; it was plain self defense!

[davearm]

If Aaron Miles is the answer, I don't want to know the question.

Although I suppose, "who could be worse than Dan Uggla?" seems to fit.

[Migrant Redbird]

If Aaron Miles is the answer, I don't want to know the question.

Well, if we were only looking a BA, which is what the average fan goes by, Miles ranks ahead of Pedroia, Polanco, Roberts, Utley, Uggla, etc.

Of course, Miles drops behind all of those except Polanco if we rank them by OBP.

I was surprised to see that Miles still ranks ahead of Polanco on SLG. A fluke this year, perhaps?

Defensively, Miles is adequate at 2nd base. He's a decent utility guy, but he'd be a good one if he could handle shortstop adequately.

However, my point was that Miles was not the answer; Chone Figgins is more what I had in mind as a reserve All Star utility player. I'm not sure who that would be among NL players, especially with Ryan Freel on the DL much of this season.