MLB and Union talk major rule changes

[wildbillhiccup]

2 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

So you are okay with great pitchers that can only pitch and field, and bat something like .118 at the plate?

Not the best comparison. Also, I'm not sure anyone's really suggesting they want to see pitchers hit either. Why not just bat eight as someone else suggested? 

[atomic]

8 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't know, but I'd hope that a team that won 318 games in three years would outdraw a team that might not win 100 in two years.  But I'd probably be wrong, since the 2018 Orioles out-drew each of the 1969, 1970, and 1971 Orioles by 50%.  Literally the '18 Orioles drew 1.5M, each of those WS teams right at one million.  Then '72-74 they were under a million.  The '73 Orioles won 97 games and were easily out-drawn by the 2018 Rays.

The 1972 Yankees only drew 960k.  Different times.  The 70's were on big recession. People have more disposable income these days. Much bigger population.  We were at War.  There was a draft. People had other concerns.  

[Pheasants]

Is the three-batter rule for all in the same inning?  What if a pitcher comes in, gets the last out and the manager wants to lift him for a pinch hitter?

[wildbillhiccup]

2 hours ago, Ripken said:

As you said though, if the goal is to get rid of one trick ponies like Davis, teams adjust their thinking and stop overvaluing (or valuing at all) those guys.  The problems solves itself.  The though ties in with the DH discussion too, since the DH is a big reason to have those guys in the first place

Davis, as bad as he is, shouldn't be the poster child for DH only players because at one point he was a slightly better than average fielder. If we're limiting it to Orioles then Mark Trumbo would be a much better example. Trumbo would be playing in a local softball beer league if the DH didn't exist. 

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I mean I understand it from the players perspective (career longevity, more opportunities, etc.), but I just wish there was a way to force teams to play DHs in the field at some point. So they couldn't get away with carrying Mark Trumbo types on their roster. The only think that might have an impact on that is shrinking the rosters which they'll never do. 

 

I think they were concerned with keeping a 9-man batting order for continuity of records.  They might have still been smarting from Ford Frick's unhinged ranting about asterisks in '61.  They also probably didn't think through that other natural changes can be just as big - just offensive level changes from 1906 to 1930 meant swings of around 10% of PAs for a season.

I don't know if I'd necessarily be against an 8-man order with no pitcher or DH, but it would have to be accompanied by shrinking the roster or limiting the number of pitchers.

[DrungoHazewood]

6 minutes ago, atomic said:

The 1972 Yankees only drew 960k.  Different times.  The 70's were on big recession. People have more disposable income these days. Much bigger population.  We were at War.  There was a draft. People had other concerns.  

1957.  No war.  Post-WWII economic boom.  Baseball was still the unrivaled king of US professional sports, and the Yanks were in the middle of arguaby the most dominant period of any team in baseball history.  And they drew 100k fewer fans than the 2018 Orioles.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Davis, as bad as he is, shouldn't be the poster child for DH only players because at one point he was a slightly better than average fielder. If we're limiting it to Orioles then Mark Trumbo would be a much better example. Trumbo would be playing in a local softball beer league if the DH didn't exist. 

No he wasn't.

At best he was better than average at the position they put the next to worst fielders.  That still puts him way down on the overall list of defenders.

[atomic]

11 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Davis, as bad as he is, shouldn't be the poster child for DH only players because at one point he was a slightly better than average fielder. If we're limiting it to Orioles then Mark Trumbo would be a much better example. Trumbo would be playing in a local softball beer league if the DH didn't exist. 

Trumbo has actually played more games at First Base (348) and Outfield (391) than DH (305).  And according to defensive metrics Chris Davis is not a better first baseman than Trumbo.  You just don't see Trumbo at first because of Davis. 

[Beef Supreme]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

As you are further back when you are kicking an extra point , you would be kicking from near the sideline, and your running back would be kicking it, I doubt anyone would buy a fake extra point attempt in such a situation. Under the current setup, nobody fakes a PAT kick.

I was not saying the scoring player should be the kicker (that was Drungo) so a team could still fake the 1-point kick and go for the 2-point score.

Also, I don't want to put the PAT hashmarks "near the sideline."  NFL hashmarks are 70.75 feet from the sidelines. The PT hashmarks that I would add at the three-yard line would be 55 feet from the sidelines, or thereabout. Increasing the angle at which the PAT is kicked would increase the difficulty.

[DrungoHazewood]

4 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Davis, as bad as he is, shouldn't be the poster child for DH only players because at one point he was a slightly better than average fielder. If we're limiting it to Orioles then Mark Trumbo would be a much better example. Trumbo would be playing in a local softball beer league if the DH didn't exist. 

Did you know Trumbo has played 788 games between the OF and 1B, and only 308 games at DH?  There have always been players like Greg Luzinski.

[wildbillhiccup]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

I think they were concerned with keeping a 9-man batting order for continuity of records.  They might have still been smarting from Ford Frick's unhinged ranting about asterisks in '61.  They also probably didn't think through that other natural changes can be just as big - just offensive level changes from 1906 to 1930 meant swings of around 10% of PAs for a season.

I don't know if I'd necessarily be against an 8-man order with no pitcher or DH, but it would have to be accompanied by shrinking the roster or limiting the number of pitchers.

...or they could just keep it at 9 and shrink the roster sizes so it penalizes / handcuffs teams who choose to carry one trick ponies. Somewhere along the way between launch angle and the DH it's let to an influx of non fielding/swing for the fences hitters in the league who really should be playing in beer softball leagues. Trumbo, Morrison, Davidson...would any of these guys even have jobs if it weren't for the DH position? 

[wildbillhiccup]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Did you know Trumbo has played 788 games between the OF and 1B, and only 308 games at DH?  There have always been players like Greg Luzinski.

...but he certainly didn't play them well. 

[wildbillhiccup]

4 minutes ago, atomic said:

Trumbo has actually played more games at First Base (348) and Outfield (391) than DH (305).  And according to defensive metrics Chris Davis is not a better first baseman than Trumbo.  You just don't see Trumbo at first because of Davis. 

Did you isolate Trumbo's stats for just his time spent at 1B? And going by the eye test (my eyes) I can tell you that Trumbo is most definitely not a better fielder at 1b then Davis. The comparison is probably much closer in the OF, but they're both terrible. 

[Beef Supreme]

52 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

Afternoon games on local TV stations on Saturday would be good. But I know that won't happen. With all the cable or satellite crap. MLB TV is too expensive. It will never get back to the way it used to be. When I was a kid the WS came on in the afternoon. 

Saturday afternoon games would be more family oriented compared to the Saturday night games. The summer months allow more flexibility for families who travel to other ballparks. The height of Summer -- late June to early August -- would allow more of those fans who travel long-distances to see their team play against teams from the regionally divided other league. 

My suggestion is focused on attendance rather than television ratings. Though I, too, would love to be able to watch Saturday afternoon games on regular TV.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Did you isolate Trumbo's stats for just his time spent at 1B? And going by the eye test (my eyes) I can tell you that Trumbo is most definitely not a better fielder at 1b then Davis. The comparison is probably much closer in the OF, but they're both terrible. 

I think some players, Davis and Jones come to mind, look smooth in the field.  I think the eye test overrates their actual performance.

 

In other words Davis and Trumbo both might not get to a ball in the outfield but Davis will look better (not) doing it.