Harper to Phillies

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

Yep.  The O's had the high offer on the table for weeks.  Beattie went off on a ski trip leaving Flanagan minding the store.  Flanny heard about the Vlad/Angels deal via the media while he was working the entire day with same agency closing the deal with Palmeiro.

That's crazy, I don't remember any of that.  I just remember we were in hot pursuit of Vlad, didn't remember we had the high offer.

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

 

My guess is their owner won't let them, but my offer would have already been off the table.  Either that or I can in Luca Brasi.
 

Yep.  At this point I wanna see Harper and Boras fry.  And I'm not even a Harper hater.

If Philly pulls their offer, the market is sunk, there's no one that has to put up an offer in the 10/300+ range.  I'd love to see that.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yep.  At this point I wanna see Harper and Boras fry.  And I'm not even a Harper hater.

If Philly pulls their offer, the market is sunk, there's no one that has to put up an offer in the 10/300+ range.  I'd love to see that.

Signing Harper to a stupid deal would cap off a Giants off-season I find questionable.

[TonySoprano]

42 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

That's crazy, I don't remember any of that.  I just remember we were in hot pursuit of Vlad, didn't remember we had the high offer.

Quote

In an interview with the New York Post, Tellem kept open the possibility that two teams were still alive. "All I can say is that the Mets made a good-faith attempt, and Vladimir decided to sign with another team," Tellem said.

Duquette's comments left the Orioles scrambling to find out if they were indeed out of the running. Team officials said they had not been told they were out by Tellem, Fernando Cuza, Diego Benz or any of Guerrero's other agents.

What made that more surprising is that only hours earlier, the Orioles had completed a deal with another of Cuza's clients, Rafael Palmeiro.

But Orioles officials also sounded almost nonplussed by the news, as if they knew it was coming. "The world will go on," another top team official said.

In mid-December, when most teams were saying they didn't have the money to sign Guerrero, the Orioles offered a five-year, $65 million contract.

Later in the month, they increased that offer to five years for $67.5 million, saying they didn't want to guarantee a sixth year because of lingering concerns about Guerrero's back. He spent 39 games on the disabled list last season with a herniated disc in his lower back, then returned to play in 62 of the Montreal Expos' final 64 games.

Quote

Guerrero's agents made an initial proposal to the Orioles asking for eight years and $145 million. They lowered those demands to seven years and $105 million, and for some time, neither side seemed willing to budge.

Eventually, the Orioles did.

After signing shortstop Miguel Tejada to a six-year, $72 million deal, and catcher Javy Lopez to a three-year, $22.5 million deal, the Orioles offered Guerrero the richest deal of the offseason.

But instead of softening, Guerrero's agents held firm, playing coy with the Orioles as they solicited interest from other teams. One top Orioles official said he thought the Guerrero camp was holding out for six years and $90 million.

That would be $15 million per season. Guerrero already turned down $15 million per year (five years, $75 million) from the Expos before declining arbitration. So far, the free-agent market obviously hasn't been as fruitful as he may have thought.

A year ago, the Philadelphia Phillies gave Jim Thome the richest deal of the offseason when they signed him to a six-year, $85.2 million deal. That's $14.2 million per season, and there is implicit pressure on Cuza and Benz to re-raise the bar with Guerrero.

The Orioles weren't willing to do that. They were more eager to compromise with Tejada, Lopez and Palmeiro because shortstop, catcher and first base were three positions they absolutely needed to fill. But if the Orioles were to lose out on Guerrero, they would still have Jay Gibbons to play right field.

"Maybe [Guerrero] just did us a favor," one Orioles official said late last night.

 

 

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Signing Harper to a stupid deal would cap off a Giants off-season I find questionable.

The Giants are so far off my radar, I have no idea what they've done.  

[theocean]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Signing Harper to a stupid deal would cap off a Giants off-season I find questionable.

San Francisco is such an affluent city and that team is in such good financial shape (talking things outside payroll) that they can really do whatever they want without much risk.

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

 

Holy jeez, what a nightmare down memory lane that thread is.  Derrek Lee, Carlos Delgado, Richie Sexson, Paul Konerko....

It's like we just HAD to have Derrek Lee and Vlad so we got em at the end of their careers.  Terrible.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, theocean said:

San Francisco is such an affluent city and that team is in such good financial shape (talking things outside payroll) that they can really do whatever they want without much risk.

I'm not worried about them going bankrupt.

But I don't think they are going to contend this year and they are not building for the future.

[TonySoprano]

12 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Holy jeez, what a nightmare down memory lane that thread is.  Derrek Lee, Carlos Delgado, Richie Sexson, Paul Konerko....

It's like we just HAD to have Derrek Lee and Vlad so we got em at the end of their careers.  Terrible.  

At the time, I remembered it was a ski trip, but while Beattie was away on a family vacation, it was Florida instead.  My guess is even though the Orioles did bid against themselves, Dr. Angelos weighed in on the bid.

Quote

Among the details to emerge after the Angels' stunning coup was that the Orioles actually added a sixth year to their offer nearly two weeks ago -- increasing the total value from $65 million to $78 million. The additional year, confirmed Sunday by team officials, was first reported by the Baltimore Sun.

The Angels' reported winning bid of five years, $70 million was not even submitted until Thursday -- and was lower overall than the Orioles' offer, but with a higher average annual salary.

Guerrero, who will turn 28 next month, had been the Orioles' top target since the day the free agent market opened, but negotiations went far slower than those with shortstop Miguel Tejada and catcher Javy Lopez, both of whom signed with the Orioles in December.

Guerrero "was a luxury," Flanagan said, "not a necessity."

The Orioles began to suspect Guerrero might be hesitant to sign with them when, according to a team source, he ignored or rejected their repeated invitations to visit Baltimore. It was presumed Guerrero preferred a city with a larger Latin American population.

Still, the New York Mets had been the only other team bidding against the Orioles -- and their offer guaranteed only $30 million over three years, with incentives and vesting options that could have kicked the total up to $71 million if Guerrero remained healthy. Guerrero's agents rejected it quickly.

As of late Saturday night, the Orioles were still not aware that Guerrero had signed with the Angels -- even though Guerrero's agents, Fernando Cuza and Diego Benz, told Mets General Manager Jim Duquette that their client had signed with the Angels. Duquette told New York area reporters during a conference call Saturday night that Guerrero had signed elsewhere.

Orioles Executive Vice President Jim Beattie was in Florida on personal business at the time, and Flanagan was at home.

Guerrero's troublesome back had been an issue for both the Orioles and the Mets, and one industry source said Sunday night that Guerrero's passing his Angels physical was "no slam dunk." Guerrero missed nearly two months of the 2003 season with a herniated disk.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/2004/01/12/angels-appear-out-of-nowhere-to-land-guerrero/a729ba22-a698-44b0-a5af-b841daaff2ef/?utm_term=.bb986e9a1cab

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, TonySoprano said:

At the time, I remembered it was a ski trip, but while Beattie was away on a family vacation, it was Florida instead.  My guess is even though the Orioles did bid against themselves, Dr. Angelos weighed in on the bid.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/2004/01/12/angels-appear-out-of-nowhere-to-land-guerrero/a729ba22-a698-44b0-a5af-b841daaff2ef/?utm_term=.bb986e9a1cab

Oh man, I definitely remember that now.  I remember reading that article.  

Vlad wouldn't have done anything to get those teams out of the dark ages, though.  Would have made it more enjoyable but those were always going to be bad teams because we never had the arms.  

 

[TonySoprano]

21 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Oh man, I definitely remember that now.  I remember reading that article.  

Vlad wouldn't have done anything to get those teams out of the dark ages, though.  Would have made it more enjoyable but those were always going to be bad teams because we never had the arms.  

 

Final moral of the story, Guerrero's agents' starting point was much higher.  Did they do this to try to keep the Orioles at arms length or did they totally misread the market?  The Sun reported

Quote

According to sources familiar with the Orioles' talks, Guerrero's agents made an initial proposal asking for eight years, $145 million. They lowered those demands to seven years for $105 million, and for some time, neither side seemed willing to budge.

Will that be how the Harper saga ends up?  Fewer years with a higher AAV?   I doubt it.

BTW, Guerrero's bad back "only" allowed him to average 141 games/season for the next six years.

[waroriole]

15 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

That's an interesting tweet...at LEAST 10 years.  So teams have offered more years?

Buster's tweet doesn't tell us anything we don't already know.

If I am Philly I'm giving him a 12 hour deadline to $#*% or get off the pot.  Enough is enough.

Sounds like Grade A bull flop 

[OriolesMagic83]

This whole free agent saga by Harper and Boras has made me like him even less.  I didn't know that was possible.  I hope he goes to a losing team and stinks.  The Giants remind me of last year's Orioles.  They would be a good fit.  Other than his MVP season, Harper hasn't been much more than a solid regular. 

[Redskins Rick]

15 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

The Giants are so far off my radar, I have no idea what they've done.  

There was an article last year, that said the Giant front office and ownership was pretty much forked up and maybe even worse than the Orioles.

[wildbillhiccup]

16 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Signing Harper to a stupid deal would cap off a Giants off-season I find questionable.

No more questionable than last off season. They took on Longoria's contract for goodness sake.