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If Mussina wins 20, is he a shoe-in for the Hall?


Frobby

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Here's hoping he doesn't...
Here, here.

Hey, I hate the Yankee$ as much or more than most, but I simply do not understand the hate for Mussina around here. A dysfunctional organization allowed the window of free agency to open for Mussina, and then lowballed him. Would you have stayed under those conditions? And, if so, why???

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There is absolutely no chance a 300-game winner wouldn't be a first-ballot HOFer. Thats a crazy notion.

The thought processes of many HOF voters is a crazy notion. I've long since moved past guessing who'll actually be a HOFer, much less first-ballot, and just try to give my opinions on who I think should be a HOFer.

In my opinion, Mussina was a HOFer a while ago. He's just piling up counting stats now. If he'd been born the same year as Jim Palmer Mussina would probably have 325 wins.

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Hey, I hate the Yankee$ as much or more than most, but I simply do not understand the hate for Mussina around here. A dysfunctional organization allowed the window of free agency to open for Mussina, and then lowballed him. Would you have stayed under those conditions? And, if so, why???

It ain't totally about the fact that he left, it's about where he went.

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Mussina is very unlikely to win 20 this year IMO, but he should still be a Hall of Fame pitcher. I'm honestly surprised it is still this questionable, though I agree that it is to most people. As to why I don't think he'll win 20, I'll be shocked if he doesn't start to show some serious fatigue over the last two months.

Well, he is 39, so you could be right about the fatigue issue. But Girardi really has handled Mussina with kid gloves. He's only thrown 100 pitches in 6 starts and has thrown under 90 pitches 12 times. And, he's traditionally a strong September pitcher (career ERA of 2.84 in September).

I'll be rooting for him, so long as his good pitching doesn't bring the Yankees a playoff berth.

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Mussina will be voted in the baseball Hall of Fame, and he should be in the Orioles Hall of Fame too.

For the Orioles, Mussina is third-all time in career wins. He has the highest won-loss percentage, .645, in Oriole history. He has the 3rd lowest ERA+ on the Orioles all-time, ahead of Jim Palmer. He's seventh in innings pitched, second in strikeouts, fifth in games started, and has the second highest strikeout to walk ratio in Orioles history at 3.29 strikeouts to every walk.

In the ten years he pitched for the Orioles, he finished in the top ten in Cy Young voting seven times. He won four gold gloves for the Orioles, and was selected as a all-star five times as an Oriole.

He had one of the best Oriole pitching postseason ever in 1997. In 1997, he started four games, pitching in 29 innings, giving up 11 hits, allowing four earned runs (1.24 ERA), and striking out 41 batters with seven walks.

Bobby Grich left the Orioles in 1976 in free agency, played ten 10 years for the California Angels, and he is in the Orioles Hall of Fame. If Bobby Grich is in the Orioles Hall of Fame, Mike Mussina should be for the Orioles Hall of Fame too after he retires too.

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Mussina will be voted in the baseball Hall of Fame, and he should be in the Orioles Hall of Fame too.

For the Orioles, Mussina is third-all time in career wins. He has the highest won-loss percentage, .645, in Oriole history. He has the 3rd lowest ERA+ on the Orioles all-time, ahead of Jim Palmer. He's seventh in innings pitched, second in strikeouts, fifth in games started, and has the second highest strikeout to walk ratio in Orioles history at 3.29 strikeouts to every walk.

In the ten years he pitched for the Orioles, he finished in the top ten in Cy Young voting seven times. He won four gold gloves for the Orioles, and was selected as a all-star five times as an Oriole.

He had one of the best Oriole pitching postseason ever in 1997. In 1997, he started four games, pitching in 29 innings, giving up 11 hits, allowing four earned runs (1.24 ERA), and striking out 41 batters with seven walks.

Bobby Grich left the Orioles in 1976 in free agency, played ten 10 years for the California Angels, and he is in the Orioles Hall of Fame. If Bobby Grich is in the Orioles Hall of Fame, Mike Mussina should be for the Orioles Hall of Fame too after he retires too.

Good summary. There's not a shred of a doubt Mussina belongs in the Orioles Hall of Fame. As to whether O's fans should care if he gets into Cooperstown, that's up to each fan to decide. For me, no matter what hat Mussina would be wearing on his plaque, his 10 years as an Oriole would be a big part of what he accomplished in his career.

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Hey, I hate the Yankee$ as much or more than most, but I simply do not understand the hate for Mussina around here. A dysfunctional organization allowed the window of free agency to open for Mussina, and then lowballed him. Would you have stayed under those conditions? And, if so, why???

I couldn't agree more!! To see you say this really makes my day. The hate for Mussina is the third most ridiculous thing on this board in my opinion (Calling the Red Sox, Sux, and saying Yankees suck being second. If those teams "suck", then what are we? And ESPN hates the Orioles being the first of course). Great post!

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If Mussina gets in the HOF it will strictly have to be on longevity and 300 wins. Nothing else he has done is HOF worthy. While he has been a very good pitcher for a long, long, time what has he done that would be considered great? No 20 game winning seasons, no Cy Youngs, no- no hitters, very few All-star appearances, etc. He just doesn't fit the bill of a HOF player in my estimation, but then again, I didn't think Don Sutton should have gotten in either. I think Curt Shilling and even David Wells who both have no-hitters or perfect games, and great post season records deserve to get in way more than Mussina, as does Dennis Martinez.

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If Mussina gets in the HOF it will strictly have to be on longevity and 300 wins. Nothing else he has done is HOF worthy. While he has been a very good pitcher for a long, long, time what has he done that would be considered great? No 20 game winning seasons, no Cy Youngs, no- no hitters, very few All-star appearances, etc. He just doesn't fit the bill of a HOF player in my estimation, but then again, I didn't think Don Sutton should have gotten in either. I think Curt Shilling and even David Wells who both have no-hitters or perfect games, and great post season records deserve to get in way more than Mussina, as does Dennis Martinez.

How about David Cone? Won 20 twice, 8-3 in the playoffs, perfect game.

Tom Browning won 20 once, was 2-1 with a 3.71 ERA in the playoffs and pitched a perfect game.

Do either of them deserve it more?

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If Mussina gets in the HOF it will strictly have to be on longevity and 300 wins. Nothing else he has done is HOF worthy. While he has been a very good pitcher for a long, long, time what has he done that would be considered great? No 20 game winning seasons, no Cy Youngs, no- no hitters, very few All-star appearances, etc. He just doesn't fit the bill of a HOF player in my estimation, but then again, I didn't think Don Sutton should have gotten in either. I think Curt Shilling and even David Wells who both have no-hitters or perfect games, and great post season records deserve to get in way more than Mussina, as does Dennis Martinez.

So just to compare numbers with a Oriole Hall of Famer

Jim Palmer 268-152 2.86 ERA 2,212 K's

Mike Mussina 261-150 3.70 ERA 2,731 K's

Both have 521 starts, also for 17 staright seasons, Mussina has won at least 11 games and in only one of those years has he lost more that he has one. Is it his fault that a strike shortened season cost him 20 wins, is it his fault that Armando Benetiz blows a save against the Blue Jays in his final start of the year that would have been win number 20, is it his fault that Rivera blows that lead against the Diamondbacks and he never wins a ring? The Hall of Fame is a numbers game, and based on him numbers, he should be in even if he doesn't win 20 or get 300 wins.

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So just to compare numbers with a Oriole Hall of Famer

Jim Palmer 268-152 2.86 ERA 2,212 K's

Mike Mussina 261-150 3.70 ERA 2,731 K's

Both have 521 starts, also for 17 staright seasons, Mussina has won at least 11 games and in only one of those years has he lost more that he has one. Is it his fault that a strike shortened season cost him 20 wins, is it his fault that Armando Benetiz blows a save against the Blue Jays in his final start of the year that would have been win number 20, is it his fault that Rivera blows that lead against the Diamondbacks and he never wins a ring? The Hall of Fame is a numbers game, and based on him numbers, he should be in even if he doesn't win 20 or get 300 wins.

ERA+ would work better for this comp.

Palmer: 126

Mussina: 122

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