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Orioles trying to acquire Alcides Escobar or Mat Gamel from the Brewers?


SevisonJN

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We also have this position called DH that will be empty in a year and a half...

Why would you acquire a offensive prospect who is DH type? We have 2 of those guys already in our lineup. That's like shooting yourself in the foot.

And a DH position is never empty...you can fill that hole with ANYBODY.

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We have more arms than bats in this organization, and arms less sure things than bats. Look at the arms that came back in the Tejada deal since you mentioned it. Any arms we get in trade stand the same risk, where a position player has less risk. If we want a sure thing back for Sherrill, a pitcher is not what we want.

We've been stockpiling pitching for years now and where has it gotten us? I'd rather stockpile hitters.

Oh, now there is an approach I can disagree with. You are saying pitching is risky so ignore it. That definitely does not work.

The reason the O's are stock piling arms is to be try to find enough of them to actually win enough game to contend. The focus on arms development is a 'work in progress'. I don't think that the O's can give up on it. They have to continue the focus until they have enough arms in the majors to be a contender. Then they have to continue to develop arm but maybe at a more even pace with hitting.

Great pitching beats great hitting most of the time. Just ask Roy Halliday.

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Why would you acquire a offensive prospect who is DH type? We have 2 of those guys already in our lineup. That's like shooting yourself in the foot.

And a DH position is never empty...you can fill that hole with ANYBODY.

Why did the Indians trade for Travis Hafner?

Gamel could play 1st as well possibly. The point is that Gamel is more of a sure thing than any available SP prospect that we can trade for.

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Scouting rules over rankings, but why are rankings created in the first place? They're created for comparison purposes and to identify value specifically to evaluate trades. Teams rank their own farm systems and their opponent's prospects and this gets updated regularly based on scouting reports and performance. That's why Arrieta can't be dealt because his value is skyrocketing due to the evolution of scouting reports on him based on his performance this year.

Arrieta's value has been rising from day one because of his performance and ceiling. Liz's value has been jumping around because of his volatility and hints at being a reliever. Detwiler's value was based on his draft position. And Masterson has been a riser due to Bosox hype and he's always been seen as a reliever by the Sox. Thus Arrieta has more value than the 3 you mentioned had last year.

Right, but the lists that matter (the zebra lists, so to speak) aren't the lists that are available to the public. Posters are using BA rankings to make definitive statements like "You don't trade a Y-ranked player for 2 Z-ranked players." That is faulty logic.

I disagree a bit with your QED stance on Arrieta having more value this year than any of those three had last year, but it isn't central to the discussion.

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Oh, now there is an approach I can disagree with. You are saying pitching is risky so ignore it. That definitely does not work.

The reason the O's are stock piling arms is to be try to find enough of them to actually win enough game to contend. The focus on arms development is a 'work in progress'. I don't think that the O's can give up on it. They have to continue the focus until they have enough arms in the majors to be a contender. Then they have to continue to develop arm but maybe at a more even pace with hitting.

Great pitching beats great hitting most of the time. Just ask Roy Halliday.

And how are those Blue Jays doing anyway? They've got the second best staff in the majors and they are in 4th place.

Name an organization that has only stockpiled pitching and is successful.

We have no offensive prospects whatsoever that are ready to step in for the next two years besides Reimold and Wieters. Do you want to burn all our draft picks on FA hitters?

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We have more arms than bats in this organization, and arms less sure things than bats. Look at the arms that came back in the Tejada deal since you mentioned it. Any arms we get in trade stand the same risk, where a position player has less risk. If we want a sure thing back for Sherrill, a pitcher is not what we want.

We've been stockpiling pitching for years now and where has it gotten us? I'd rather stockpile hitters.

Yep. We need pitchers AND position players.

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And how are those Blue Jays doing anyway?

Name an organization that has only stockpiled pitching and is successful.

We have no offensive prospects whatsoever that are ready to step in for the next two years besides Reimold and Wieters. Do you want to burn all our draft picks on FA hitters?

We're aren't "only" stockpiling pitching. It's not like we don't have offensive prospects.

Minnesota has a history of stockpiling pitching (Liriano, Baker, Slowey, Garza, Bonser, etc.)

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Worth noting, again, that Gamel has made large strides this year, defensively -- cutting his errors almost in half while playing at a higher MiL level.

Well when you have 53 errors at 3B, cutting in half still isn't good.

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We're aren't "only" stockpiling pitching. It's not like we don't have offensive prospects.

Minnesota has a history of stockpiling pitching (Liriano, Baker, Slowey, Garza, Bonser, etc.)

We've got two that are ML ready and only one A prospect. Everybody else is a suspect or is too far down in the minors

1B -

2B - Hoes

3B - Snyder

SS -

RF -

LF - Reimold

CF - Avery

C - Wieters

That's the list of prospects that we have for hitting.

Here's the SP list

Matusz

Tillman

Arrieta

Bergesen

Berken

Hernandez

Spoone

Erbe

Penn

Patton

Butler

Beato

Bascom

Britton

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And how are those Blue Jays doing anyway? They've got the second best staff in the majors and they are in 4th place.

Name an organization that has only stockpiled pitching and is successful.

We have no offensive prospects whatsoever that are ready to step in for the next two years besides Reimold and Wieters. Do you want to burn all our draft picks on FA hitters?

Right now the O's are much deeper in hitters then are in pitchers. Roberts, Jones, Markakis, Huff, Scott are killing pitchers since the line up has gelled. Wieters and Reimold just adds to that. And since you agree that hitters are less likely to get hurt, the O's are in much better shape with hitting. Just look at the hitting stats for the last 2 months.

Starting pitching is the number one need of the Orioles. It is not even close.

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Why did the Indians trade for Travis Hafner?

Gamel could play 1st as well possibly. The point is that Gamel is more of a sure thing than any available SP prospect that we can trade for.

Hafner wasn't necessarily a top prospect at the time. Plus the Indians gave up very little for him. That trade wasn't even close to the caliber of a big deadline deal like a Sherrill trade.

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We've got two that are ML ready and only one A prospect. Everybody else is a suspect or is too far down in the minors

1B -

2B - Hoes

3B - Snyder

SS -

RF -

LF - Reimold

CF - Avery

C - Wieters

That's the list of prospects that we have for hitting.

You're actually listing Avery and Hoes? Might as well add Tyler Henson or Rowell to 3B. Snyder is slated for 1B. Tripp for DH. Montanez?

The reason you stockpile pitchers is to give you flexibility to trade major league pitchers for hitting talent. You rarely see pitching prospects get dealt for hitting prospects.

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