DL Hall 2019

[LookinUp]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’d argue that Bedard panned out.   Thankfully MacPhail had the foresight to trade him at peak value, because I wouldn’t view him the same way if he’d stayed with us and spent half his time on the IL the next few years.    

Bedard got us Jones and Tillman, so I can see the case. I’m hoping from much more production from Hall than Bedard ever provided though.

[LookinUp]

To put it another way, the O’s will need Mike Mussina types to be perennial contenders. Bedard was never on that level. He was closer to a flash in the pan. We need a horse.

[Just Regular]

I'm curious for opinions on the wisdom of cultivating two breaking balls together.  Obviously it's fantastic if he can master both, but if command really is the last piece of the puzzle, that seems like a bigger priority than a backup breaker.  I guess if there's only so many pitches to throw hot each week, is there enough time to practice hitting all four quadrants (or missing where you want for chases) with your three main pitches and grow a 4th pitch?

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, LookinUp said:

To put it another way, the O’s will need Mike Mussina types to be perennial contenders. Bedard was never on that level. He was closer to a flash in the pan. We need a horse.

I can’t argue with this.    What we need is someone with Bedard’s talent and Guthrie’s durability.    

[Frobby]

Just now, OrioleDog said:

I'm curious for opinions on the wisdom of cultivating two breaking balls together.  Obviously it's fantastic if he can master both, but if command really is the last piece of the puzzle, that seems like a bigger priority than a backup breaker.  I guess if there's only so many pitches to throw hot each week, is there enough time to practice hitting all four quadrants (or missing where you want for chases) with your three main pitches and grow a 4th pitch?

Fair question, but I’m OK letting him work on all four and cutting it back later if necessary.  

[Just Regular]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Fair question, but I’m OK letting him work on all four and cutting it back later if necessary.  

I would also add for many pitchers this is a time when you figure out if your breaking ball is a curve or a slider.  Some of the slider scrutiny here is that I've heard such glowing things about his curve that I imagined he already had that question answered.

I know Paxton and Snell were comps, also wonder how guys more in the scouting know would compare/contrast him with Max Fried, another emerging lefty.  A quick survey of their repertoires - Savant has

Fried - 60% fast, 28% curve, 8% slide (only 3% change)

Snell - 43% fast, 32% curve, 17% change (only 7% slide)

Paxton - 64% fast, 24% cutter, 12% curve - I guess I see Paxton is a LaLoosh-ian lightning in his arm guy who can't spin the ball very well (heaven help hitters if he could).  I'm surely oversimplifying but somewhat when I see cutter as a guy's 2nd pitch, it says all power, no finesse.

[atomic]

On 4/27/2019 at 9:55 AM, Frobby said:

I’d argue that Bedard panned out.   Thankfully MacPhail had the foresight to trade him at peak value, because I wouldn’t view him the same way if he’d stayed with us and spent half his time on the IL the next few years.    

If Hall turns out good as Bedard we should be pleased. 10.6 WAr over 3 seasons.

[atomic]

On 4/27/2019 at 10:10 AM, LookinUp said:

Bedard got us Jones and Tillman, so I can see the case. I’m hoping from much more production from Hall than Bedard ever provided though.

He is in low A ball. I think you need to have more realistic expectations of what you consider  to be successful from him.  

[MASNPalmer]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

He is in low A ball. I think you need to have more realistic expectations of what you consider  to be successful from him.  

FYI, High A ball (Frederick) where he has 23 Ks in 15 IP and is 3+ years younger than average competition. 

[atomic]

Just now, MASNPalmer said:

FYI, High A ball (Frederick) where he has 23 Ks in 15 IP and is 3+ years younger than average competition. 

Dylan Buddy and Hunter Harvey were great at that stage too.  If he gets 17 career WAR like Ballard we should be very happy.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

He is in low A ball. I think you need to have more realistic expectations of what you consider  to be successful from him.  

It’s not a matter of expectations, it’s a matter of hopes and needs.   Bedard essentially had two really good seasons.   Those are the only two seasons where he pitched enough innings to qualify.  We need to develop a pitcher who gives us more than that, whether it’s Hall or someone else.   

[atomic]

11 hours ago, Frobby said:

It’s not a matter of expectations, it’s a matter of hopes and needs.   Bedard essentially had two really good seasons.   Those are the only two seasons where he pitched enough innings to qualify.  We need to develop a pitcher who gives us more than that, whether it’s Hall or someone else.   

You can win championships without a player in Mike Mussina caliber.  He has over 80 career WAR and is Hall of Famer.  To hope anyone to achieve that will lead to great disappointment. I would be overjoyed if anyone ends up being the next Cuellar or Flanagan. 

[glenn__davis]

4 hours ago, atomic said:

You can win championships without a player in Mike Mussina caliber.  He has over 80 career WAR and is Hall of Famer.  To hope anyone to achieve that will lead to great disappointment. I would be overjoyed if anyone ends up being the next Cuellar or Flanagan. 

I  think you are confusing the words "hope" and "expectation".  

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, atomic said:

You can win championships without a player in Mike Mussina caliber.  He has over 80 career WAR and is Hall of Famer.  To hope anyone to achieve that will lead to great disappointment. I would be overjoyed if anyone ends up being the next Cuellar or Flanagan. 

I don’t disagree.    When was the last time we had a 100-win pitcher?    Mussina, who won a helluva lot more than 100.    Cuellar and Flanagan both did.   

Point is, we need to develop a few solid starting pitchers.    One Bedard wouldn’t be enough.    

[Ohfan67]

This thread got me to relook at the Orioles draft year-by-year WAR totals. I end up on those baseball reference pages a couple of times a year. I should never look at those on a Monday morning.