Trade value 2019

[Beef Supreme]

On 4/25/2019 at 5:30 PM, Philip said:

 Well, I just read the transcript for the chat at MLB trade rumors, and one of the questions was about whether Edwin Encarnacion of the Mariners has any trade value, and the answer was, “ha ha ha ha no“

That means that Mancini probably doesn’t have much trade value as a first base man, But he might have some as an outfielder. 

Solely because of his contract. Therein lays the huge difference between his value and Mancini's.

[interloper]

17 minutes ago, Beef Supreme said:

This is the first time I have heard that the Orioles "cleaned up" in the Schoop trade. I hope that Jean Carmona is going to be so great as to make this statement accurate.

I guess I meant compared to how down we were on Schoop earlier that season. If I told you in May 2018 we would get 3 players for Schoop including a quality ML 2B/SS you would have laughed in my face.

[Spl51]

2 hours ago, Beef Supreme said:

This is the first time I have heard that the Orioles "cleaned up" in the Schoop trade. I hope that Jean Carmona is going to be so great as to make this statement accurate.

Considering Schoop was non-tendered this year, while we control Villar for another year after this it's not a large hurdle.

Have you even seen a video of 19 year old Carmona play?

[HowAboutThat]

Here’s a query for the crowd:

If we traded Cobb for nothing, just got rid of his salary, would that be worth doing? We wouldn’t get anything back but we’d be free of the remaining ~40 million.

[nate22]

1 minute ago, Philip said:

Here’s a query for the crowd:

If we traded Cobb for nothing, just got rid of his salary, would that be worth doing? We wouldn’t get anything back but we’d be free of the remaining ~40 million.

I think that would be worth it because I don't envision him bringing back anything of value. The problem is, I don't see anyone taking on his salary right now.

[Can_of_corn]

22 minutes ago, Spl51 said:

Considering Schoop was non-tendered this year, while we control Villar for another year after this it's not a large hurdle.

Have you even seen a video of 19 year old Carmona play?

The Brewers might have non-tendered Villar if they hadn't traded for Schoop.

[Beef Supreme]

3 hours ago, interloper said:

I guess I meant compared to how down we were on Schoop earlier that season. If I told you in May 2018 we would get 3 players for Schoop including a quality ML 2B/SS you would have laughed in my face.

Maybe not. I was one of those who thought Schoop would recover from the bad start.

But I understand that a lot of people would agree with you that Schoop's return was better than what many were expecting last May.

[Spl51]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

The Brewers might have non-tendered Villar if they hadn't traded for Schoop.

Schoop was gonna be payed at least $10 million that's why he was non-tendered. Villar is being payed $4.8 million this year.

It's about WAR per dollar, not just total WAR. The excess value that Villar provided compared to Schoop wasn't just performance

[Frobby]

Just now, Spl51 said:

Schoop was gonna be payed at least $10 million that's why he was non-tendered. Villar is being payed $4.8 million this year.

It's about WAR per dollar, not just total WAR. The excess value that Villar provided compared to Schoop wasn't just performance

Good point.   

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Spl51 said:

Schoop was gonna be payed at least $10 million that's why he was non-tendered. Villar is being payed $4.8 million this year.

It's about WAR per dollar, not just total WAR. The excess value that Villar provided compared to Schoop wasn't just performance

Sure, but to say one was non-tendered and the other wasn't without proper context is misleading.

I don't think the Brewers wanted to pay arbitration price for Villar anymore than they wanted to pay for Schoop.  It is also possible that another team would have been willing to offer Schoop arbitration.

They sold low on Villar, he had obviously worn out his welcome there.

[Spl51]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure, but to say one was non-tendered and the other wasn't without proper context is misleading.

I don't think the Brewers wanted to pay arbitration price for Villar anymore than they wanted to pay for Schoop.  It is also possible that another team would have been willing to offer Schoop arbitration.

They sold low on Villar, he had obviously worn out his welcome there.

I mean Schoop was on the free market and is playing for $7.5 million this year, so any team that would have payed his price in arbitration had the opportunity and didn't.

I agree that the Brewers might have non-tendered Villar or more likely traded him elsewhere, but that's because they wouldn't have wanted to pay a bench player that much. Obviously the change of scenery helped Villar, but that's still a win for us.

If Schoop  had played at even 70% of his 2017 level, I would say the trade was fair, but Schoop cratered. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Spl51 said:

I mean Schoop was on the free market and is playing for $7.5 million this year, so any team that would have payed his price in arbitration had the opportunity and didn't.

I agree that the Brewers might have non-tendered Villar or more likely traded him elsewhere, but that's because they wouldn't have wanted to pay a bench player that much. Obviously the change of scenery helped Villar, but that's still a win for us.

If Schoop  had played at even 70% of his 2017 level, I would say the trade was fair, but Schoop cratered. 

I'm not sure that's a leap you can really make with any certainty.  (He does also have incentives that can raise the total compensation over 7.5M)

[Spl51]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not sure that's a leap you can really make with any certainty.  (He does also have incentives that can raise the total compensation over 7.5M)

You think it's arguable that a team would offer him his arbitration raise but wouldn't give him the same price in free agency?

I guess there's no certainty that a team wouldn't be dumb enough to do it because they feel a certain amount of pressure to not look stupid for trading for him by hoping for him to rebound, but I'm not sure that makes the trade any worse for us.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Spl51 said:

You think it's arguable that a team would offer him his arbitration raise but wouldn't give him the same price in free agency?

I guess there's no certainty that a team wouldn't be dumb enough to do it because they feel a certain amount of pressure to not look stupid for trading for him by hoping for him to rebound, but I'm not sure that makes the trade any worse for us.

I think every season some players get more in arbitration than they would on the open market.  Do you disagree?

Schoop also signed early, it is possible, albeit unlikely, that a better deal would have surfaced if he had continued to explore the market.

[Spl51]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think every season some players get more in arbitration than they would on the open market.  Do you disagree?

Schoop also signed early, it is possible, albeit unlikely, that a better deal would have surfaced if he had continued to explore the market.

Very seldomly I would say. I'm not talking about a player not playing up to their arbitration raise in hindsight, players on contracts do that too, but a player that wasn't going to live up to their raise in expected production I would think would get non-tendered, especially if it was their last year of control like Schoop.

None of this really matters, because ultimately Villar has been better than Schoop while we pay him less and control him a year longer, and we got a lotto ticket and possibly a reliever.