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A couple of thoughts about our current catchers and Adley Rutschman

Frobby

By Frobby
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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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7 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

That is an interesting concept...

Players who we either drafted and developed who became true cornerstones for us. 

Hmmm ...Brooks Robinson,  Jim Palmer,  Cal, Eddie Murray...that’s all I have.   

You could say Mike Mussina but he left..which isn’t a real cornerstone-ish attribute.  Same way with Manny. 

And none were the 1-1 pick. 

That’s too high a standard.  I consider guys like Adam Jones and Nick Markakis to be cornerstone players.   You need 3-4 of them to anchor your team.  

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

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39 minutes ago, Frobby said:

That’s too high a standard.  I consider guys like Adam Jones and Nick Markakis to be cornerstone players.   You need 3-4 of them to anchor your team.  

Maybe so....But cornerstones in buildings are usually singular as all the other stones are laid in relationship to it....to have more than one is rare and usually brings championship runs....

Nick?  Not quite good enough to be a cornerstone...he would be in the Boog Powell category for me..  Plus Nick left, which cornerstones don’t do...Same way with Adam...we didn’t develop or sign him AND he left...

Arbitrary, sure, but I view cornerstones as franchise defining players that are Hall of Famers usually. . 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

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56 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Maybe so....But cornerstones in buildings are usually singular as all the other stones are laid in relationship to it....to have more than one is rare and usually brings championship runs....

Nick?  Not quite good enough to be a cornerstone...he would be in the Boog Powell category for me..  Plus Nick left, which cornerstones don’t do...Same way with Adam...we didn’t develop or sign him AND he left...

Arbitrary, sure, but I view cornerstones as franchise defining players that are Hall of Famers usually. . 

If those are your criteria, then the odds of getting a cornerstone player at 1-1 are greater than 10-1 against.   

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orioles22 Major Leaguer

orioles22

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4 hours ago, Frobby said:

That’s too high a standard.  I consider guys like Adam Jones and Nick Markakis to be cornerstone players.   You need 3-4 of them to anchor your team. 

I agree. Surhoff and Palmeiro were cornerstone players for a time.

How many Hall of Fame type players just stay with one team for their entire careers? Not many..

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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10 hours ago, tntoriole said:

That is an interesting concept...

Players who we either drafted and developed who became true cornerstones for us. 

Hmmm ...Brooks Robinson,  Jim Palmer,  Cal, Eddie Murray...that’s all I have.   

You could say Mike Mussina but he left..which isn’t a real cornerstone-ish attribute.  Same way with Manny. 

And none were the 1-1 pick. 

Of course Books and Palmer predated the draft.  They were signed as amateur free agents.

If your criteria for cornerstone is no-doubt HOFers who played their whole career with a team there can't be a dozen of them in MLB history.  The odds of drafting one today could be rounded off to 0.0000.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

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6 hours ago, orioles22 said:

I agree. Surhoff and Palmeiro were cornerstone players for a time.

How many Hall of Fame type players just stay with one team for their entire careers? Not many..

Brooks and Palmer. Musial. Gehrig. Ott.  Schmidt. Yaz. Ripken.  Kaline.  Brett. Chipper. DiMaggio.  Yount.  Mantle.  Gehringer.  Bagwell, sort of.  Appling.  Bench.  Gwynn.  Larkin. Banks.  Yogi.  Koufax. Feller.  Johnson. Gibson. Rivera.  Hubbell.  There a a few more, but that's pretty far down the list.

I was a little lite saying a dozen.  But it's not a lot.   And there are less now that players have a choice, at least after draft, development, and 6-7 years of service.  If that's your definition of cornerstone there's still roughly a zero percent chance of getting one in the draft.

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Aglets Hangout Grand Counsel

Aglets

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6 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Brooks and Palmer. Musial. Gehrig. Ott.  Schmidt. Yaz. Ripken.  Kaline.  Brett. Chipper. DiMaggio.  Yount.  Mantle.  Gehringer.  Bagwell, sort of.  Appling.  Bench.  Gwynn.  Larkin. Banks.  Yogi.  Koufax. Feller.  Johnson. Gibson. Rivera.  Hubbell.  There a a few more, but that's pretty far down the list.

I was a little lite saying a dozen.  But it's not a lot.   And there are less now that players have a choice, at least after draft, development, and 6-7 years of service.  If that's your definition of cornerstone there's still roughly a zero percent chance of getting one in the draft.

Mike Trout apparently.   Still can't quite explain why he's staying out there given their track record.

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2 minutes ago, Aglets said:

Mike Trout apparently.   Still can't quite explain why he's staying out there given their track record.

He's been there since he was a teenager and likes the team and the weather and the area and his $35M a year through the age of 38?  Maybe his wife and kids like LA.

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Ohfan67 Hangout Grand Counsel

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13 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Maybe so....But cornerstones in buildings are usually singular as all the other stones are laid in relationship to it....to have more than one is rare and usually brings championship runs....

Nick?  Not quite good enough to be a cornerstone...he would be in the Boog Powell category for me..  Plus Nick left, which cornerstones don’t do...Same way with Adam...we didn’t develop or sign him AND he left...

Arbitrary, sure, but I view cornerstones as franchise defining players that are Hall of Famers usually. . 

Using your construction analysis: EVERY building has a cornerstone (every building made of stone, that is). You were proposing a definition of cornerstone player that would exclude all players on many winning teams (many winning teams do not have a hall of fame type player...maybe even the vast majority of most winning teams?). Is that a correct interpretation on my part?

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