How much longer do we have to wait?

[Sports Guy]

You might not like it, but you are going to have a hard time proving that MacPhail is not holding the AA team together for a pennant run.

Meanwhile, Montanez just hit his 26th HR and drove in his 96th RBI as Bowie lead 8-1. If they win they will be 1 1/2 out of first as Akron lost today.

Oh, i don't disagree it may be the reason...it is just a poor one.

Hell, he kept him in single A for a meaningless AS game.

[rolliefingers]

It should also be noted that Wieters has a much greater K:BB ratio then Bruce did last year, which would indicate Wieters would have less trouble adjusting to ML pitching.

Bruce last season walked 47 times and struckout 135.

Wieters so far this season has walked 66 times and struckout only 63.

Also a good point. What this tells me is that Wieters is going to be a very good player, whether it happens now or next April.

[BaltimoreTerp]

And I don't think that he feels he is. We can see from the fact that Bergesen, Montanez and Wieters have overachieved at AA that if MacPhail thought if was best to move them up, he would have already done so.

He probably feels like the O's are not contending this year, so it is good for all three to get the feel of a pennant race in AA.

Over getting experience at the major leagues when struggling doesn't matter?

This is where I have a problem in simply assuming that because many things are being done better than in the past EVERYTHING is. Andy MacPhail isn't perfect; he can still make a mistake.

Now, this may not end up being a mistake, and in fact probably won't. I just haven't heard one reason against bringing Weiters and others up that makes sense from the perspective of the major-league team, which is the whole point.

[wildcard]

What does it matter?

1) How does winning in AA affect how a player develops? Wouldn't a great player who played on terrible (for whatever reason) minor-league teams be just as likely to help a team win then an equivalent player who was on great minor-league teams?

2) Looking at Bowie, there are only a handful of those players that are likely to have an impact on a major-league team, especially a contender. That's thinking about the number of prospects as a whole and the historical percentages of those kinds of players who make it. Why does it matter if all of these guys win together if it won't matter for most?

Ask MacPhail. Keeping them at AA is what he is doing. It is not hard to see, and hard to deny. Why weren't Bergesen and Montanez promoted after the AA All-Star game? Why hasn't Wieters been promote after destorying AA pitching for a month. We all know he is better then AA at this point. That doesn't change the fact that they are still right there in AA.

These players are in AA because that is where MacPhail wants them. The question is why. And the only answer I can see is the there is a pennant race there. I see no other reason.

[BaltimoreTerp]

All fair points, but I don't think Wieters is going to struggle much when he comes up, even if it happens tomorrow. I actually think you're under-estimating Wieters.

I can see the arguments for both sides, and like I said, I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference. He's going to rake, period. If waiting a little longer means we guarantee getting him for an extra year, then fine. It shouldn't matter by then, anyway.

I hope I'm underestimating Weiters :laughlol:

Remember, Nick struggled, worked through it and is now the player he is.

And your last sentence is critical. All of this shouldn't even be a discussion in the future, because if it is then something will have gone very, very wrong.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Ask MacPhail. Keeping them at AA is what he is doing. It is not hard to see, and hard to deny. Why weren't Bergesen and Montanez promoted after the AA All-Star game? Why hasn't Wieters been promote after destorying AA pitching for a month. We all know he is better then AA at this point. That doesn't change the fact that they are still right there in AA.

These players are in AA because that is where MacPhail wants them. The question is why. And the only answer I can see is the there is a pennant race there. I see no other reason.

Then why rationalize that this is a good reason? Why not wonder why this is the only reason?

[rolliefingers]

Then why rationalize that this is a good reason? Why not wonder why this is the only reason?

<img src="http://www.buyxanaxonline.org/i/05-milligram-Xanax-big.jpg"></img>

Settle down, Beavis.

[BaltimoreTerp]

<img src="http://www.buyxanaxonline.org/i/05-milligram-Xanax-big.jpg"></img>

Settle down, Beavis.

Well gee, that makes me want to take your opinions under advisement.

[wildcard]

Over getting experience at the major leagues when struggling doesn't matter?

This is where I have a problem in simply assuming that because many things are being done better than in the past EVERYTHING is. Andy MacPhail isn't perfect; he can still make a mistake.

Now, this may not end up being a mistake, and in fact probably won't. I just haven't heard one reason against bringing Weiters and others up that makes sense from the perspective of the major-league team, which is the whole point.

First point - MacPhail has to think he knows more about developing players then you or I. If we asked him, I am sure he would tell us that.

Second point - You say 'from the perspective of the major-league team'. I doubt that is what is happening here. If it was they would already be at the major league level.

This appears to be from MacPhail's perspective of what is best for the development of the players.

What appears to be happening is that MacPhail values players being in a pennant race and learning from it. If you have a better explanation please state it, because that is the only one I can come up what.

[wildcard]

Then why rationalize that this is a good reason? Why not wonder why this is the only reason?

Because, silly me, I think MacPhail knows more about developing players then I do.

[BaltimoreTerp]

First point - MacPhail has to think he knows more about developing players then you or I. If we asked him, I am sure he would tell us that.

Probably. But then what's the point of discussing anything?

Second point - You say 'from the perspective of the major-league team'. I doubt that is what is happening here. If it was they would already be at the major league level.

That's my point. Why are we looking at the good of the minor-league team over the good of the major-league team?

This appears to be from MacPhail's perspective of what is best for the development of the players.

That's fine, and I am discussing why I disagree.

What appears to be happening is that MacPhail values players being in a pennant race and learning from it. If you have a better explanation please state it, because that is the only one I can come up what.

Again, why rationalize the reason as good instead of asking why it is the reason?

[BaltimoreTerp]

Because, silly me, I think MacPhail knows more about developing players then I do.

Not to bring up a political discussion, but even though people in our government probably know more about how everything works then most of us, does that mean we can't disagree when something happens? (Keeping everything in general terms.)

Why can't we disagree with decision-making?

[wildcard]

Not to bring up a political discussion, but even though people in our government probably know more about how everything works then most of us, does that mean we can't disagree when something happens? (Keeping everything in general terms.)

Why can't we disagree with decision-making?

Disagree all you want. Its America. Not China. However the discuss was why not bring these guys up. And I gave up what I think is the answer. Because MacPhail apparently thinks it is more valuable to the players development to have him in a pennant race.

Agree with it. Disagree with it. Its up to you. I was just giving you the best explanation for what is happening that I have come up with.

[Roll Tide]

Disagree all you want. Its America. Not China. However the discuss was why not bring these guys up. And I gave up what I think is the answer. Because MacPhail apparently thinks it is more valuable to the players development to have him in a pennant race.

Agree with it. Disagree with it. Its up to you. I was just giving you the best explanation for what is happening that I have come up with.

Guys... A few things would have to happen for us to mover anyone up. As I recall Salazar didn't get a chance to play here when he was called up & IMO he certainly deserved it. He hit 2 Hr's & .278 in 17 AB's with the Orioles. Sat on the bench and watched Millar,Mora, & our SS hit .250 or less. He's played all the infield positions so there is no excuse why DT could rotate him in. I would guess the same would be true for Wieters or Montanez. DT is the wrong manager for this team that is suposed to be rebuilding. The same as many O's mangers before him loves the veterans.

[Big Mac]

Guys... A few things would have to happen for us to mover anyone up. As I recall Salazar didn't get a chance to play here when he was called up & IMO he certainly deserved it. He hit 2 Hr's & .278 in 17 AB's with the Orioles. Sat on the bench and watched Millar,Mora, & our SS hit .250 or less. He's played all the infield positions so there is no excuse why DT could rotate him in. I would guess the same would be true for Wieters or Montanez. DT is the wrong manager for this team that is suposed to be rebuilding. The same as many O's mangers before him loves the veterans.

Please tell me you can tell the difference between these scenarios?

Salazar is 30 years old, he's not a prospect, He can only play 1B adequatley, there was no place for him here.

Wieters is probably the #1 prospect in baseball, he's 22, when he comes up it will be as an everyday player. I guarantee it.

Montanez falls somewhere in the middle of Salazar and Wieters. He's 26 and this is his 3rd turn at AA. I think he is viewed by the organization as a 4th OF.