What's with the Yusniel regression?

[joelala]

1 hour ago, cboemmeljr said:

I really don't think that roster moves/promotions are based on playoffs.  Winning a Minor League playoff sells tickets for the MiLB club.  Player development should not be based on a team's place in the standings.  I doubt Elias is looking at the standings as he determines what is best for a player's development.

Agreed.  Though some may be arguing that he wants to get guys experience in playoff situations, which is fine.  But I don't think MiLB playoffs do much to prepare you for nationally televised MLB playoffs.

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, joelala said:

Agreed.  Though some may be arguing that he wants to get guys experience in playoff situations, which is fine.  But I don't think MiLB playoffs do much to prepare you for nationally televised MLB playoffs.

I think it’s more the experience of playing on a winning team that pushes through a pennant race and then some pressure games, rather than any specific experience they get from the playoffs.   And, it would kind of suck for all the other players at Bowie, as well as the fans who support that team, if their best hitter was taken away just as they were making their playoff push.   I’m not saying those are important considerations compared to what is best for the player’s development, but I wouldn’t say they have zero weight, either.   

[joelala]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I think it’s more the experience of playing on a winning team that pushes through a pennant race and then some pressure games, rather than any specific experience they get from the playoffs.   And, it would kind of suck for all the other players at Bowie, as well as the fans who support that team, if their best hitter was taken away just as they were making their playoff push.   I’m not saying those are important considerations compared to what is best for the player’s development, but I wouldn’t say they have zero weight, either.   

Totally fair points all around.  I suppose some playoff experience is better than none, albeit experience with much lower stakes. 

[Flash- bd]

Really don't see what else Yusniel has to learn at AA. Time to move Stewart to the bigs, Yusniel to AAA, and goodbye Dwight Smith Jr. 

[DirtyBird]

50 minutes ago, Flash- bd said:

Really don't see what else Yusniel has to learn at AA. Time to move Stewart to the bigs, Yusniel to AAA, and goodbye Dwight Smith Jr. 

Let him win at Bowie and call him up to the bigs in September.

[WalkWithElias]

Depends on if there is anything player development has him working on. If they are asking him to make tweaks to his swing or approach at the plate, it makes sense to have him try new stuff in a place where he is comfortable, confident, and not worried about his playing card stats. If they are just letting him rip, he's ready to move up to Norfolk. 

[LookinUp]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I think it’s more the experience of playing on a winning team that pushes through a pennant race and then some pressure games, rather than any specific experience they get from the playoffs.   And, it would kind of suck for all the other players at Bowie, as well as the fans who support that team, if their best hitter was taken away just as they were making their playoff push.   I’m not saying those are important considerations compared to what is best for the player’s development, but I wouldn’t say they have zero weight, either.   

I actually completely disagree with this. Playoff baseball is a different animal at any level. The quality of competition is higher. The attention to detail better. The preparation much more thorough. I actually think it's very valuable to put guys in those situations.

I'll say it: I'd rather have Diaz playing in the playoffs in Bowie than getting meaningless at bats when our pitching just gave up 16 runs in Norfolk.

[Frobby]

54 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I don't think Diaz has anything else to learn at AA.  At the same time, I'm trusting Elias and his team to make the right decisions.   They seem to know what they are doing.  So, for now, I'm not sweating Diaz still being in AA.  

Overall, Elias has been pretty patient with the prospects.    He doesn’t seem in a hurry to push them along.    

[WalkWithElias]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Overall, Elias has been pretty patient with the prospects.    He doesn’t seem in a hurry to push them along.    

I don't want to see any pitcher going straight from Bowie to Baltimore because of the changes to the baseball. We've seen Norfolk go from a place all good hitting prospects go to die to Akin putting up so-so numbers yet starting the AAA All Star game because these new baseballs he led to such big offensive stats. 

I don't know how I feel about a hitter moving from Bowie to Baltimore. I don't think the balls make any difference to a hitter's approach or how a player would perform defensively. 

What I'm getting at is - Does the level Diaz plays at for the rest of the summer have any impact on where he starts next year? With an equally strong spring, could he be in Baltimore to start 2020 or is there a checkbox that needs to be marked in Norfolk before he comes up?

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, WalkWithElias said:

I don't want to see any pitcher going straight from Bowie to Baltimore because of the changes to the baseball. We've seen Norfolk go from a place all good hitting prospects go to die to Akin putting up so-so numbers yet starting the AAA All Star game because these new baseballs he led to such big offensive stats. 

I don't know how I feel about a hitter moving from Bowie to Baltimore. I don't think the balls make any difference to a hitter's approach or how a player would perform defensively. 

What I'm getting at is - Does the level Diaz plays at for the rest of the summer have any impact on where he starts next year? With an equally strong spring, could he be in Baltimore to start 2020 or is there a checkbox that needs to be marked in Norfolk before he comes up?

Not necessarily a checkbox, but I think the options situation will come into play.    Hays and Santander will have only one option remaining, and Stewart will have two.   Diaz will have three.    So, it’s likely he starts the year in Norfolk.

[LookinUp]

8 minutes ago, WalkWithElias said:

What I'm getting at is - Does the level Diaz plays at for the rest of the summer have any impact on where he starts next year? With an equally strong spring, could he be in Baltimore to start 2020 or is there a checkbox that needs to be marked in Norfolk before he comes up?

I think service time is an issue for Diaz as much as just about any guy in our system. They'll want to get the extra year and, just guessing, I think they'll use the Norfolk step to do that.

[TINSTAAPP]

19 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I actually completely disagree with this. Playoff baseball is a different animal at any level. The quality of competition is higher. The attention to detail better. The preparation much more thorough. I actually think it's very valuable to put guys in those situations.

I'll say it: I'd rather have Diaz playing in the playoffs in Bowie than getting meaningless at bats when our pitching just gave up 16 runs in Norfolk.

Here's a perspective from a former minor league baseball player that completely disagrees with you assessment.

 

Quote

 

When I was drafted back in 2004, I was immediately sent to the Toronto Blue Jays Short Season A-Ball affiliate, the Auburn Doubledays. At the time, general manager J.P. Ricciardi was well-known for his tendency to value advanced college players over projectable high-schoolers, and filled his draft boards accordingly. When I reported to Auburn, the entire team was made up of all 20+ year old kids, the overwhelming majority of them having played at least 2 years of college baseball (I played 4). In the infield alone, our catcher was an All-American from the University of Texas, our two first baseman were All-Americans from the Citadel and the University of Southern California, the 2^nd baseman was an All-Pac 10 performer at Stanford, the shortstop was an All-SEC player at Vanderbilt, and myself (at 3^rd). Our team finished the season with the best record in the New York Penn League with a 50-24 record, which I believe at the time, was one of the best regular seasons in NY Penn League history.

Why do I bring this up? Across our entire roster of collegiate All Americans and All-Conference performers, only 8 players out of 46 total, made it to the Big Leagues. Only 2 of them, pitcher Casey Jannsen and outfielder Adam Lind, accumulated more than 1 year in service time. So, while we dominated our respective league and put together one of the greatest seasons in league history, what did it amount to at the Big League level? Next to zero.

And that’s the underlying problem with Baggery’s article – wins and losses at the minor league level are 100% meaningless. While some front offices and organizations may claim they care about winning, nothing could be further from the truth, and my role within the organization was a direct reflection of that. At the minor league level, success is based solely on individual player development based around top prospects.

 

https://straight108.com/2017/06/04/extrabaggs/

[LookinUp]

19 minutes ago, TINSTAAPP said:

Here's a perspective from a former minor league baseball player that completely disagrees with you assessment.

 

https://straight108.com/2017/06/04/extrabaggs/

I don't think he directly addressed the point I was making, though I do think his opinion applies well to what we think about Aberdeen and GCL this year.

I'm talking about the specific benefit of a top player getting ABs in the thick of a pennant race/playoff series. I'm not saying it'll take our C prospect and turn him into an A+ guy, but I would rather that than having our guys getting essentially meaningless ABs against guys who couldn't even be called up for September promotions in games that don't matter, just playing out the string.

[survivedc]

I think “learning to win” is less important in baseball than in football or basketball, but I would certainly prefer players to get accustomed to a culture of winning as they develop.

As it pertains to this situation, I would almost rather the opposite of Diaz’s situation, have the opportunity to bring someone up that is on the cusp of promotion.

[weams]