2019 Trade Deadline

[Moose Milligan]

7 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Remember all those back and forth arguments with @atomic about whether or not Cashner was actually a good pitcher? 

I have some hazy memories.  In a stunning reversal of roles, I've actually got atomic on ignore now and I must say it's tremendous.  

[jamalshw]

2 hours ago, bpilktree said:

The dodgers are a good match up imo.  They have quite a few middle infielders that intrigue me and would seem to fit what we maybe looking for in young guys in the lower level that have high upside.  

I would ask for Jacob Amaya and Josiah Gray in a deal with them.  Amaya is a young middle infielder that is putting up decent numbers in A ball and has some defenseive upside.   Gray is another young guy who just got called up to AA and has a quality arm.  He is similar to Givens as many saw him as an infielder in college some.  He could be a middle o rotation starter if he finds a third pitch or a quality late inning guy that can throw mid 90s.

I would think it would be a win if you get one of those two (along with a GCL/DSL prospect or two) and would be surprised if the Orioles could land both unless there's more to the deal than just Givens.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Remember all those back and forth arguments with @atomic about whether or not Cashner was actually a good pitcher? 

Are you declaring victory after two games?   I don’t expect him to maintain the ERA he had with the O’s, but I’m not going to declare him useless based on two bad games.    He’s got a long track record and that’s about who I expect him to be.    

[wildbillhiccup]

Just now, Frobby said:

Are you declaring victory after two games?   I don’t expect him to maintain the ERA he had with the O’s, but I’m not going to declare him useless based on two bad games.    He’s got a long track record and that’s about who I expect him to be.    

I'm declaring victory after three years of him sucking. Andrew Cashner hasn't been a decent starting pitcher since 2015. 

• He was a terrible pitcher in 2016 by every metric. 
• He was EXTREMELY lucky in 2017 (advanced metrics indicate his era should have been over 5.00. xFIP of 5.30 and a pedestrian swinging strike rate of 6.1%)
• He was a terrible pitcher in 2018 by every metric. 

[Lucky_13]

47 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I'm declaring victory after three years of him sucking. Andrew Cashner hasn't been a decent starting pitcher since 2015. 

• He was a terrible pitcher in 2016 by every metric. 
• He was EXTREMELY lucky in 2017 (advanced metrics indicate his era should have been over 5.00. xFIP of 5.30 and a pedestrian swinging strike rate of 6.1%)
• He was a terrible pitcher in 2018 by every metric. 

Agree 100 percent.  The fact that they got anything for him after he came into the season with negative value is a win in my book.

People bought in too much to his hot streak in June/July. 

[theocean]

1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I'm declaring victory after three years of him sucking. Andrew Cashner hasn't been a decent starting pitcher since 2015. 

• He was a terrible pitcher in 2016 by every metric. 
• He was EXTREMELY lucky in 2017 (advanced metrics indicate his era should have been over 5.00. xFIP of 5.30 and a pedestrian swinging strike rate of 6.1%)
• He was a terrible pitcher in 2018 by every metric. 

I don't think the Red Sox thought they were trading for an ace. They flat out said they plan to move him to the bullpen and might not even use him in the playoffs.

He had two crummy starts, but if he can provide some innings and help them win a few games through the summer - it'll be worth the two 17 year-old DSL players they gave up for him.

[wildbillhiccup]

27 minutes ago, theocean said:

I don't think the Red Sox thought they were trading for an ace. They flat out said they plan to move him to the bullpen and might not even use him in the playoffs.

He had two crummy starts, but if he can provide some innings and help them win a few games through the summer - it'll be worth the two 17 year-old DSL players they gave up for him.

They didn't. I 'm talking more about some posters being upset with how little we were able to get in return for him. 

[wildbillhiccup]

1 hour ago, Lucky_13 said:

Agree 100 percent.  The fact that they got anything for him after he came into the season with negative value is a win in my book.

People bought in too much to his hot streak in June/July. 

The guy that bought in was Brady Anderson in 2018 when he ignored every advanced metric and lobbied to sign him to a mult-year deal.What a head scratcher. 

[JMU_Birdfan]

It is very interesting that there still hasn't been a pick up in number of trades happening. I am assuming it's because so many teams are still looking for clarity on whether they will be buyers or sellers, but even this doesn't make much sense to me. If you're trying to hold out and determine your identity on your performance in the last 10 days leading up to the trade deadline, why not go ahead and make that trade to help give yourself the advantage to win those 10 days while others are still holding out.

[jerios55]

I do find some comfort in Elias waiting and working through potential deals.

A decent number of people were upset Cashner was traded sooner and at what seems like a lower return. 

Others mentioned he could have a few bad starts and lower that value.  Who knows how he would have pitched if he stayed (these 2 starts could be moving, nerves, whatever...).

At the end of the day, I think Cashner is the guy you move early and Givens is a guy you wait to add leverage.  While collectively we'll have whiners either way, I think this way makes sense.

[Roll Tide]

40 minutes ago, jerios55 said:

I do find some comfort in Elias waiting and working through potential deals.

A decent number of people were upset Cashner was traded sooner and at what seems like a lower return. 

Others mentioned he could have a few bad starts and lower that value.  Who knows how he would have pitched if he stayed (these 2 starts could be moving, nerves, whatever...).

At the end of the day, I think Cashner is the guy you move early and Givens is a guy you wait to add leverage.  While collectively we'll have whiners either way, I think this way makes sense.

The market for rental relievers is rumored to be very high. Givens should cost more and perhaps he waiting for a reliever to be moved to set the market 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Roll Tide said:

The market for rental relievers is rumored to be very high. Givens should cost more and perhaps he waiting for a reliever to be moved to set the market 

I'd rather set the market than allow someone else to put a ceiling on it.

[Roll Tide]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd rather set the market than allow someone else to put a ceiling on it.

Well if they are rental relievers Givens is worth more due to years of control.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Roll Tide said:

Well if they are rental relievers Givens is worth more due to years of control.

If that is the case the rentals won't really be setting the market.

Regardless I'd rather he be aggressive instead of letting teams find relievers elsewhere.

[jerios55]

I dont care if Givens is 1st, 2nd or 3rd reliever traded    I just think he's on a better streak, is likelier to continue said streak and has shown historically that this is closer to the norm.  That plus a deadline works in our favor.  

I think Cashner was the reverse.  Historical wasn't as good and seeing 1-2 more starts was less likely to net much difference.  Get an offer you like and just pull the trigger.

So to me, Elias is going about this right.  Maybe players returning don't work out or whatever.  I just like the approach.