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Orioles trade Cashner to Red Sox

MurphDogg

By MurphDogg
in Orioles Talk

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Chito Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Chito

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31 minutes ago, interloper said:

Meoli snuck this line into his latest article, but doesn't elaborate:

Wonder what that means, exactly.

Here's how Connolly put it:

Cashner is a tough guy who spoke his mind and didn’t care about ruffling young Orioles’ feathers. But he also gave exorbitant amounts of time to those inexperienced guys in the clubhouse.

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OFFNY Hangout Grand Counsel

OFFNY

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22 hours ago, Frobby said:

 

I always find it funny that people want to brag about how good Brooks, Belanger, Blair, Grich, et al. were, but then don’t want to acknowledge the obvious conclusion that the Orioles’ pitchers would have had a significantly higher ERA if they’d had an average defense behind them. Palmer himself has no problem acknowledging that fact. Of course, he also gives himself credit (as he should, IMO) for adjusting his pitching to account for the great defense behind him.   

 

o

 

I love this post, as it is a quintessential example of how nobody plays (and/or pitches) in a vacuum. It is an example of the "cause-and-effect" principle ........ yes, Palmer was greatly assisted by having a perennially outstanding defense behind him, but Palmer also KNEW how great that defense was, and (at least to a certain extent) adjusted his pitching accordingly.

 

Systems are often tied into at least one (and sometimes more than one) other system. On a similar note, it is like when a runner gets picked off of 1st base, the batter proceeds to hit a solo home run a couple of pitches later, and fans of the team say that if the runner had not gotten picked off it would have been a 2-run home run ........ but this is a flawed assumption, because if the runner had not gotten picked off the pitcher would have been pitching from the stretch, and he would not necessarily have thrown the same pitch that he threw with a runner on 1st base with one out as opposed to nobody on base with 2 outs. The batter may have still hit a home run if the runner were still on base, but he also might have hit a long single or a double into the gap, or he might have popped the ball up for an out.

 

o

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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The return for Cashner doesn’t really matter, either. It was a money play just as much as a prospect play, and the Orioles now have two 17-year-old, up-the-middle talents that they didn’t have before, and one less veteran pitcher whose brand of leadership in the clubhouse certainly wasn’t for everyone.

(A bonus leftover thought on the trade)

Without getting too much into the return, it seems some of the reaction to it is clouded by the fact that the Orioles have always had to give up substantial pieces with minor league pedigrees who have gone on to have success (Eduardo Rodriguez, Zack Davies, etc.) for their rentals.

That’s because the Orioles didn’t have the teenage lottery tickets that teams wanted to target the way the Red Sox did, and that’s why the team joining the international amateur market is important. Such young players who teams can project out are not only valuable to their own farm systems, but make trading for major league talent easier. Losing those kinds of prospects can be easier to stomach, and teams sign so many Latin American players so that they can be comfortable making those moves.

When you don’t have them, you trade away legitimate pieces for rentals. And when you’re years away from contending, a couple of toolsy lottery tickets is a fine return.

 

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jsbearr Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

jsbearr

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1 hour ago, Chito said:

Here's how Connolly put it:

Cashner is a tough guy who spoke his mind and didn’t care about ruffling young Orioles’ feathers. But he also gave exorbitant amounts of time to those inexperienced guys in the clubhouse.

Both jive with what I heard. If you connected with his personality, then he could be helpful. However, his style was his style and he was not going to compromise how he choose to communicate himself. He also would interject himself into situations where past experience illustrated that he was a poor messenger in those moments particularly because he refused to adapt to different people. Some considered him a bit hypercompetitive in some situations, which can be a boon but also get in the way.

In other words, if you were looking for a team leader then you would keep on looking, but if a guy could relate to him and he would stay out of situations he could not provide something positive then he is a good fit.  As a veteran leader, he is a good fit as the third or fourth banana where others higher on the chain could push him out of situations where he really is not suited for.

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jsbearr Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

jsbearr

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Just now, jsbearr said:

Both jive with what I heard. If you connected with his personality, then he could be helpful. However, his style was his style and he was not going to compromise how he choose to communicate himself. He also would interject himself into situations where past experience illustrated that he was a poor messenger in those moments particularly because he refused to adapt to different people. Some considered him a bit hypercompetitive in some situations, which can be a boon but also get in the way.

In other words, if you were looking for a team leader then you would keep on looking, but if a guy could relate to him and he would stay out of situations he could not provide something positive then he is a good fit.  As a veteran leader, he is a good fit as the third or fourth banana where others higher on the chain could push him out of situations where he really is not suited for.

I cannot get into specifics and this involves another team, but there was a situation like Cashner's where the pitcher was doing well enough to be useful, but that the pitcher was such an ill fit as a team leader (where he excelled before as a second or third in clubhouse command) that the team dealt him out. The feeling was that the savings in money and the pieces in return would be worth more to the success of the club than having a guy around who insisted on inserting himself in situations where he was not competent to handle a leadership role. The pitcher was undermining the community of the clubhouse and that was more important in that instance than his all star level performance in the field.

Cashner was not as good as that pitcher, but you hear some similar things between that guy and Cashner so maybe the general thought was that they would get a couple upside guys while eliminating someone who was perceived as a mild hindrance to what they wanted the clubhouse to be.

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MarCakes21 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

MarCakes21

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As part of Saturday's trade, Baltimore received a pair of 17-year-old prospects and agreed to send Boston $1,777,839 to cover all but $1,577,000 of the $3,354,839 Cashner was due from his $8 million salary this year.

Baltimore already was responsible for $500,000 in performance bonuses Cashner had earned: $250,000 each for 10 and 15 starts. The Orioles agreed to reimburse Boston for the $625,000 bonus Cashner would earn for making 20 starts, the $250,000 each he would earn for 110 and 120 innings, $275,000 for 130 innings, $350,000 for 140 innings and $750,000 for 150 innings.

 

Was this previously reported that the O's will be paying the $2.5 million in bonuses to Cashner?  So the Red Sox are only paying him $1.6 mil for the remainder of the season. I think the fact that we got true lottery tickets and not even a top 20/30 guy in the Sox org is interesting given that we're giving up the money as well

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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I think we should know by 2021 whether Prado or Romero are legit prospects or not.    They’ll still be a long way from the majors, but will be off the island if they’re any good and hopefully making some noise here.   

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