Not to be whiny, but can we just cut Richie Martin loose already?

[weams]

 “I do know that the UZR stat’s convoluted because it’s dependent on a person to collect the data. Then, you know, WAR’s affected by UZR as well – one version, depends on where you get it, I guess. So, I don’t put a lot of weight in UZR and I don’t think it’s that accurate of a stat.”

[weams]

“Ball in the gap with a man on first, should you throw to third to try to get a guy, or try to keep a double play in order?” says Boston’s Mookie Betts. “I don’t know if that kind of thing goes into statistics, but pitchers, people in the game, know that’s the game. You keep the double play in order, and the pitcher’s one pitch away from getting out of an inning. Those type of things are more important than some of the statistical stuff.”

[weams]

“I don’t buy any of that crap,” Eaton says. “I think it’s all worthless. I think baseball, you play with your eyes. You’ve played with your eyes for the last 135 years, and now all of a sudden, they want to create some jobs, so we’ve got all these numbers.”

[weams]

“You know what?” Fowler says. “This whole metrics stuff is skewed. If anybody asks, just ask the pitcher, ‘Hey, who do you want out there?’ That’s what they need to do, is start asking pitchers.”

[weams]

https://tht.fangraphs.com/players-and-coaches-skepticism-of-defensive-metrics/

[wildcard]

Thanks Weams.  I have been saying this for years.  I have been saying  it for so long I got tired of saying it.  So I rarely talk about it now.

[wildcard]

5 hours ago, JMU_Birdfan said:

Is Richie Martin next year's Opening day starting short stop? If not, then who?

Depends on whether Elias can acquire someone better.

[HowAboutThat]

21 minutes ago, weams said:

Oh, so you are one who thinks there is any accuracy there yet? Advanced defensive metrics are sadly insufficient. Honestly, its that there are no better ones that disturb me.  And it would not be that hard to tighten it up. Savage. 

I was joking. Buck urgently and constantly derided every stat except, apparently, TTTP.

My own feeling is that, despite their problems, they exist for a reason and we ignore them at our peril. It’s better to have them than not have them, and we need only put them in perspective for them to be useful.

Buck threw the baby out with the bath water.

[weams]

20 minutes ago, Philip said:

I was joking. Buck urgently and constantly derided every stat except, apparently, TTTP.

My own feeling is that, despite their problems, they exist for a reason and we ignore them at our peril. It’s better to have them than not have them, and we need only put them in perspective for them to be useful.

Buck threw the baby out with the bath water.

Thanks. Well explained. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, TheThinkingOriole said:

I went to last night's game, and they had a between inning segment with Mejdal talking about how antiquated batting average is because it developed 10 years after the Civil Wars. I guess getting rid of slavery is antiquated, too, right, Sid?

I stand by my earlier comment.

[Frobby]

Just watched a segment on Wall to Wall Baseball where all three participants (Davis, Kubatko, Viviano) were saying that the eye test Martin’s defense doesn’t match the advanced metrics.    As I mentioned, I agree.    I’ve also noticed a lot of comments by teammates recently on how good his defense is.    

I wish there was a database you could go to to see the individual plays and how they were graded.   

[weams]

Just now, Frobby said:

Just watched a segment on Wall to Wall Baseball where all three participants (Davis, Kubatko, Viviano) were saying that the eye test Martin’s defense doesn’t match the advanced metrics.    As I mentioned, I agree.    I’ve also noticed a lot of comments by teammates recently on how good his defense is.    

I wish there was a database you could go to to see the individual plays and how they were graded.   

Like I said. Lazy and sloppy. We put a man on the moon. We can have plays graded by robots. 

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, weams said:

Like I dsaid. Lazy and sloppy. We put a man on the moon. We can have plays graded by robots. 

I don’t think they’re lazy or sloppy.    There are smart people working as hard as they can to make this stuff as accurate as they can.    But sometimes, it just doesn’t jibe with what we think we see.    Could be we’re wrong,  could be some flaws in their system.

I’ll say this: it used to be a lot more common for the different advanced metrics to disagree with each other.    These days, they almost always agree in direction, but with variances in order of magnitude.  I don’t find as many cases where I strongly disagree with the numbers as I used to.    But Martin is definitely one that has me scratching my head.  

[weams]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t think they’re lazy or sloppy.    There are smart people working as hard as they can to make this stuff as accurate as they can.    But sometimes, it just doesn’t jibe with what we think we see.    Could be we’re wrong,  could be some flaws in their system.

I’ll say this: it used to be a lot more common for the different advanced metrics to disagree with each other.    These days, they almost always agree in direction, but with variances in order of magnitude.  I don’t find as many cases where I strongly disagree with the numbers as I used to.    But Martin is definitely one that has me scratching my head.  

The defensive ones excluded. 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, weams said:

The defensive ones excluded. 

No, I meant the defensive ones.