I really want to keep Villar (Update: Traded to Marlins for LHS Easton Lucas)

[Roll Tide]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Says you?    There are countless examples of teams that cut payroll when they are rebuilding and then spend heavily when they are contending.    

Spending heavily doesnt necessarily mean spending "saved money" or spending beyond annual available income.

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Angelos’ law firm is constructed in such an unusual manner that I really can’t speculate on how they operate.    But certainly the key to a profitable law firm is the lawyers have to be busy.     If there’s not enough work to go around, the response is usually to trim personnel.    

Is the attorney pay model a 1099 or profit sharing format the norm?

[Roll Tide]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Says you?    There are countless examples of teams that cut payroll when they are rebuilding and then spend heavily when they are contending.    

 

 

Quote

In Major League Baseball, 48% of local revenues are subject to revenue sharing and are distributed equally among all 30 teams, with each team receiving 3.3% of the total sum generated. As a result, in 2018, each team received $118 million from this pot.Mar 19, 2019

So we get $118+ Million and $60 million from MASN

So $178 Million if there is no increase in MASN revenue in the last 3-4 years!

 

Thats not counting 1 dollars from The other ways that teams are receiving revenues (see below). Plus tickets, parking, concessions, memorabilia for the 1.3 million fans that attended games at $100 per fan estimate (food, tickets, parking , souvenirs, etc). That $130 million dollars and I think its a very conservative estimate that should more than cover their nonplayer salary costs.

Only once has the Orioles payroll been over $180 million..... Where is all the saved money????

2012 $78 million

2013  $68 million

2014  $58 million

2015  $43 million

2016   $18 million

2018    $19 million

2019     $97 million4

 

So thats $381 million that should be stashed away somewhere! Thats with Chris Davis' albatross !

Quote

Nationals were entitled to $59 million per year for the 2012-2016 seasons —

 

 

Quote

Which, hey, who doesn’t want to make more money? Money isn’t the issue as such, of course. The issue is that this is money going into the pockets of team owners regardless of what happens on the field with any of their specific teams. It’s not money gained from winning baseball games, from attracting baseball fans in the hope of winning baseball games or, in many cases, from even the simple transaction of buying advertising time. It’s money gained from either a side business — BamTech — or from being, broadly, a big brand with which companies have chosen to partner for far more nebulous reasons than the association with the product on the field. No one gets pumped up by a big Brewers win and goes out and buys a NewRelic.

 

 

Quote

TV money — baseball’s most important source of income — invokes this problem to a lesser but still significant extent thanks to the structure most of the deals have taken on in recent years. National and local networks, obviously, would prefer to broadcast riveting and competitive baseball, and they may have assumed that that’s what they were going to get, but that was not the only basis of their various investments when they gave out 10, 15, 20, 25 and even 30-year broadcast deals to various teams. The networks wanted the steady, prestigious, DVR-proof product that is live sports programming. They’re paying billions to teams for it. They’re paying those billions whether the teams who receive that money are competitive or whether they’re not competitive. How could they even predict such a thing? Among the current deals are ones that end as late as 2038 and 2040. The starting shortstop for the 2039 World Series winner might not have learned to walk yet.

As MLB rakes in the corporate partner and the TV money, other sources of revenue become less-and-less important. Attendance, primarily. More expensive seats and concessions and the overall luxury-i-fication of the game-going experience has allowed teams to squeeze more money out of fewer in-person fans, but the fact is that there are fewer people interested and/or able to attend baseball games than in years past. That this is not a big hit to the bottom line is a relatively recent phenomenon, by the way. For most of baseball’s history, revenues depended upon attendance more than anything else. Now, not nearly as much.

 

 

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/01/07/a-warning-about-major-league-baseballs-record-revenues/

[Frobby]

34 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Is the attorney pay model a 1099 or profit sharing format the norm?

In most law firms, partners get a K-1 reflecting their share of the partnership income.   The younger attorneys, usually called associates, are employees who are paid a salary (and maybe a year end bonus).    The best associates can be promoted to partner after 7-10 years, depending on the firm.    But it’s my understanding is that the Angelos firm is solely owned by Angelos and everyone else is an employee. That’s highly unusual in a firm of substantial size.    I’m sure the long term senior lawyers are well compensated; otherwise they wouldn’t stay.  

[Roll Tide]

21 minutes ago, Frobby said:

In most law firms, partners get a K-1 reflecting their share of the partnership income.   The younger attorneys, usually called associates, are employees who are paid a salary (and maybe a year end bonus).    The best associates can be promoted to partner after 7-10 years, depending on the firm.    But it’s my understanding is that the Angelos firm is solely owned by Angelos and everyone else is an employee. That’s highly unusual in a firm of substantial size.    I’m sure the long term senior lawyers are well compensated; otherwise they wouldn’t stay.  

That explains the layoffs

 

thanks

[theocean]

On 11/24/2019 at 9:04 AM, Frobby said:

Says you?    There are countless examples of teams that cut payroll when they are rebuilding and then spend heavily when they are contending.    

Correlation does not imply causation.

I know what you're getting at: the Astros. Houston is the 5th largest metro area in the United States, comparable to Dallas and DC:

According to spotrac - here's the payrolls from 2013-2019 for Dallas, DC, and Houston. I calculated the average payroll between Dallas and DC and compared it to Houston's payroll for that year. The row at the bottom of the chart shows how much less Houston spent that year in comparison to the average of their closest metropolitan area teams. Dallas has about half a million more people, DC has about half a million less.

From 2013-2018, the Houston Astros spent $376.5M less than their closest metropolitan-sized-siblings. They finally spent more in 2019, $17M more in payroll, after two straight 100+ win seasons, a World Series win, and three playoff appearances - which one would expect would be able to generate $17M.

Altogether, the Houston Astros have spent $359.5M less than either the Texas Rangers of Washington Nationals since 2013.

So, where'd all that money go?

[Can_of_corn]

30 minutes ago, theocean said:

Correlation does not imply causation.

I know what you're getting at: the Astros. Houston is the 5th largest metro area in the United States, comparable to Dallas and DC:

According to spotrac - here's the payrolls from 2013-2019 for Dallas, DC, and Houston. I calculated the average payroll between Dallas and DC and compared it to Houston's payroll for that year. The row at the bottom of the chart shows how much less Houston spent that year in comparison to the average of their closest metropolitan area teams. Dallas has about half a million more people, DC has about half a million less.

From 2013-2018, the Houston Astros spent $376.5M less than their closest metropolitan-sized-siblings. They finally spent more in 2019, $17M more in payroll, after two straight 100+ win seasons, a World Series win, and three playoff appearances - which one would expect would be able to generate $17M.

Altogether, the Houston Astros have spent $359.5M less than either the Texas Rangers of Washington Nationals since 2013.

So, where'd all that money go?

Fancy cameras and trash can lids.

[MurphDogg]

Wasn't sure whether to put this in this thread or in the trade value one, but thought it merited discussion.

Yolmer Sanchez was non-tendered today coming off of a 2.1 rWAR season and a Gold Glove award.

Sanchez is entering his age 28 season, coming off of of ]three seasons rWAR seasons of 3.5, 2.6 and 2.1, but the White Sox despite being a team that is spending money, unlike the Orioles, didn't want to pay him an arbitration raise from his $4.625M 2018 salary.

Villar earned $4.825M last year and is entering his age 29 season, so they are in a somewhat similar position, although Villar is entering his final arbitration season and Sanchez has an additional one. Villar's value is obviously more dependent on offense and not defense.

Villar's rWAR from 2016-2019 was 3.9, 0.1, 2.7, 4.0.

 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, MurphDogg said:

Wasn't sure whether to put this in this thread or in the trade value one, but thought it merited discussion.

Yolmer Sanchez was non-tendered today coming off of a 2.1 rWAR season and a Gold Glove award.

Sanchez is entering his age 28 season, coming off of of ]three seasons rWAR seasons of 3.5, 2.6 and 2.1, but the White Sox despite being a team that is spending money, unlike the Orioles, didn't want to pay him an arbitration raise from his $4.625M 2018 salary.

Villar earned $4.825M last year and is entering his age 29 season, so they are in a somewhat similar position, although Villar is entering his final arbitration season and Sanchez has an additional one. Villar's value is obviously more dependent on offense and not defense.

Villar's rWAR from 2016-2019 was 3.9, 0.1, 2.7, 4.0.

 

Fact: defense doesn’t pay as well as offense.    And defense is harder to quantify.   

[sportsfan8703]

2 hours ago, MurphDogg said:

Wasn't sure whether to put this in this thread or in the trade value one, but thought it merited discussion.

Yolmer Sanchez was non-tendered today coming off of a 2.1 rWAR season and a Gold Glove award.

Sanchez is entering his age 28 season, coming off of of ]three seasons rWAR seasons of 3.5, 2.6 and 2.1, but the White Sox despite being a team that is spending money, unlike the Orioles, didn't want to pay him an arbitration raise from his $4.625M 2018 salary.

Villar earned $4.825M last year and is entering his age 29 season, so they are in a somewhat similar position, although Villar is entering his final arbitration season and Sanchez has an additional one. Villar's value is obviously more dependent on offense and not defense.

Villar's rWAR from 2016-2019 was 3.9, 0.1, 2.7, 4.0.

 

So you’re telling me the White Sox now have an opening at 2B?

In all seriousness, the White Sox are one of those teams that are trying to “compete”. They may want Villar as a one year bridge till there top prospect. 

[weams]

https://www.mlb.com/orioles/news/non-tender-candidates-for-every-team

[Just Regular]

On 11/25/2019 at 10:04 PM, sportsfan8703 said:

So you’re telling me the White Sox now have an opening at 2B?

In all seriousness, the White Sox are one of those teams that are trying to “compete”. They may want Villar as a one year bridge till there top prospect. 

Eh, their OSU Beaver Madrigal made it all the way to AAA - I think he's about as sure a shot for May 1, 2020 give or take a few weeks as Rutschman is for May 1, 2021.  If Rutschman ends 2020 with a successful AAA stint, none of us will worry much about acquiring a Villar-equivalent Arb3 catcher next offseason, even if Orioles go 1-2-3-4 in next year's Rookie of the Year voting and sign Mookie Betts.

[Luke-OH]

On 11/25/2019 at 10:04 PM, sportsfan8703 said:

So you’re telling me the White Sox now have an opening at 2B?

In all seriousness, the White Sox are one of those teams that are trying to “compete”. They may want Villar as a one year bridge till there top prospect. 

I'm not sure they need a bridge, Madrigal projects better than Villar for 2020. 

[Just Regular]

On 11/25/2019 at 7:06 PM, MurphDogg said:

Wasn't sure whether to put this in this thread or in the trade value one, but thought it merited discussion.

Yolmer Sanchez was non-tendered today coming off of a 2.1 rWAR season and a Gold Glove award.

Sanchez is entering his age 28 season, coming off of of ]three seasons rWAR seasons of 3.5, 2.6 and 2.1, but the White Sox despite being a team that is spending money, unlike the Orioles, didn't want to pay him an arbitration raise from his $4.625M 2018 salary.

Villar earned $4.825M last year and is entering his age 29 season, so they are in a somewhat similar position, although Villar is entering his final arbitration season and Sanchez has an additional one. Villar's value is obviously more dependent on offense and not defense.

Villar's rWAR from 2016-2019 was 3.9, 0.1, 2.7, 4.0.

 

I will add that I think there's a little bit of the White Sox doing good soldier Yolmer a solid with the early announcement.  

I mean it'd be more solid to tender him to be a reserve, but it does make public to the other 29 teams he'll be another cromulent MI option.  

[Just Regular]

You win if you had "Keston Hiura's team" in the guessing game of where will Luis Urias go as the Padres start making offseason moves.  

The Padres must have other moves in mind, as that leaves their 2B a conspicuous opening.  Here's hoping Preller and Elias have some turkey to talk this weekend.