Montanez on the bench...again

[SilentJames]

Well then show me evidence that Montanez can't play CF and that Payton is a better defender than him there.

I don't see any...

Baseball Reference

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=9919

CF FLD% .959

LF FLD% .989

RF FLD% .981

So there you go, Luis' WEAKEST OF POSITION is CF

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/paytoja01.shtml

Jay Payton

CF FLD% .986

The rest of the stats clearly favor Payton in center.

Need more?

[JTrea81]

ARE YOU SERIOUS J?

Have you seen the last couple of games out there? Payton is a very solid defender and plays a very solid CF.

Corey Patterson made a lot of highlight reel catches too, but I think everybody would agree he was just average in CF...

[Insomniac]

I'm not sure which is worse, that this exact same thread and exact same discussion appears everytime that Montanez isn't in the starting lineup, or that I keep reading it.

[JTrea81]

Baseball Reference

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=9919

CF FLD% .959

LF FLD% .989

RF FLD% .981

So there you go, Luis' WEAKEST OF POSITION is CF

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/paytoja01.shtml

Jay Payton

CF FLD% .986

The rest of the stats clearly favor Payton in center.

Need more?

Payton has far more of a greater sample size. I wish they had +/- ratings in the minors...

[YardBirds13]

Payton has far more of a greater sample size. I wish they had +/- ratings in the minors...

JTrea,

Do you really think that if DT and the coaching staff thought Montanez could play CF that they wouldn't do it?

If they honestly thought Montanez could handle it, he would be in CF. Not everyday, but he would have been there once, at least.

Now, again, I want to see him in the line-up more often than not, but I think it should be in a combo of LF and DH.

[SilentJames]

Wow what an uneducated comment. The guy was on pace to win the triple crown in AA. He's 26 years old, not 36. He's a former #3 overall pick. He obviously is loaded with talent. Maybe it took a few years for him to realize his enormous potential. The team is going nowhere this year. This is the time you give playing time to those that may be contributing for the next few years. This idea is so simple.

BTW Silent James are you familiar with Jeremy Guthrie? He's our current #1 starter

Yes I AM familiar with Jeremy Guthrie. I am also familiar with the fact that Jeremy would not BE a number one starter on a different team.

I love Jeremy Guthrie and am a supporter of him but Luis has not proven anything over AA ball. And even then in his illustrious career he has made had only a couple seasons where he had enough ABs to make it worth anything and be considered good.

Luis is having a great season but there is a reason why the professionals, you know the coaches and scouts et al look at him and project him to be a fourth outfielder.

This isn't Jon Knott, who could have been our starting first baseman, this is a guy people are saying should start so we can get an idea if he should be or fourth outfielder next year.

Hows about we see if he can handle doing THAT, then see if he can start, seeing as how he could never get anything going his entire career over AAA. Hell, Jeremy Guthrie only got his chance in the rotation because of injuries.

People need to stop staining their Levis once a year over the minor league flavor of the month. Speaking of Jon Knott he is batting a solid .182 in the Twins organization now.

[utvolzac]

I'm not sure which is worse, that this exact same thread and exact same discussion appears ]everytime that Montanez isn't in the starting lineup, or that I keep reading it.

I agree it is redundant, but so is Montanez not being in the line up as much as possible.

IMO, he should be treated like a possible Guthrie, until he proves that he's not.

[SilentJames]

Payton has far more of a greater sample size. I wish they had +/- ratings in the minors...

Well lets see J, we have stats, coaches, scouts, players and Luis himself saying that he really can't play center field.

But you say he can so I guess that beats all of those other things.

[JTrea81]

JTrea,

Do you really think that if DT and the coaching staff thought Montanez could play CF that they wouldn't do it?

If they honestly thought Montanez could handle it, he would be in CF. Not everyday, but he would have been there once, at least.

Now, again, I want to see him in the line-up more often than not, but I think it should be in a combo of LF and DH.

Yes, because Trembley sat Luke Scott vs. LHP for most of the year and batted Millar cleanup for a month and a half when it was clear he couldn't handle it after two weeks. So excuse me if I don't trust his judgement. Payton is the safe choice defensively. Putting Montanez out there might cause him to lose a game in the field. Unfortunately the O's aren't in a pennant race right now, and winning games actuallly hurts us. So this is the time to evaluate guys at different spots. Jay Payton isn't going to be on this team next year if Jones goes down again, so it would be nice to know if Montanez could be a solution if that were to happen. Heck I wouldn't be opposed to see Luke Scott get some time in CF. He's played there before.

[SilentJames]

Yes, because Trembley sat Luke Scott vs. LHP for most of the year and batted Millar cleanup for a month and a half when it was clear he couldn't handle it after two weeks. So excuse me if I don't trust his judgement. Payton is the safe choice defensively. Putting Montanez out there might cause him to lose a game in the field. Unfortunately the O's aren't in a pennant race right now, and winning games actuallly hurts us. So there is an advantage to evaluating guys at different spots. Jay Payton isn't going to be on this team next year if Jones goes down again, so it be nice to know if Montanez could be a solution if that were to happen.

Was that the month and a half where we started 7-1? Was that the month and a half where we had a great start and got a lot of really positive things happen?

And the fact that Millar hasn't batted cleanup since means nothing. The fact that DT threw out the lineups and let the players earn the spots they are playing in now?

See, J, DT has been working with Luis for a long time. He knows what he can do.

[Roll Tide]

I just don't think many here understand that managing a team in our situation is a tight rope walk. MacPhail and Trembley have multiple obligations in this situation, to the future of the team, to the players on the roster now, to the fans who have paid hundreds and even thousands of dollars for season tickets. They have to try to build for the future AND win every game as they come up on the schedule. They have to balance multiple goals and issues.

It's not cut and dried that on June 3rd you realize you're not going to make the playoffs, so you play any scrub (yeah, I mean the Knott's, House's, Montanez's and Salazar's of the world) that might have a shot at a 24th or 25th spot on the roster next year. Payton and Quiroz have proven themselves, either this season or over a pretty decent career, to be competent ML bench players. No one that we've had as a middle infield reserve has done anything but suck, but that isn't Trembley's fault and has nothing to do with Montanez or Salazar (or Reimold for that matter). And, the lack of a 4th bench player has been entirely the fault of a starting rotation that spent two months unable to get through 5 innings and probably hasn't had any impact on our overall won-loss record, anyway.

I'm just not convinced that

- Not playing Montanez is the end of the world.

- Trembley is an idiot that doesn't know his job as well as we do.

- This is an issue worth getting really excited about. Certainly not worth all the:cussing:

Their obligations should be playing for the future as the present will is resulting in a last place team.

Their are multiple reasons why finding out if Montanez can do benefits the Orioles.

1) Find out if his bat is close to his production at AA this year. Which would mean the light has come on for a former #3 pick.

2) See if he can play adequate in the OF anywhere... otherwise you can try to find out if he could be moved to 1B, 2B, or 3B in the fall league to prepare for next season. If his bat doesn't convert then we wouldn't need to bother.

3) if he looks good then AM could decide to move Scott to try to fill another hole.

(yeah, I mean the Knott's, House's, Montanez's and Salazar's of the world)

Is any of the other guys in the above statement a former top 5 draft pick???

Just a question for you & James ... Were you for or against Guthire when the O's picked him up a few years ago???

[Mackus]

I'm sick of seeing this statement. Where's the proof that he's worse than Payton? Payton hasn't looked good in CF either...

The proof is the collective opinions of every talent scout and coach in this and other organizations.

You haven't seen him play CF, but the people who get paid to make the decisions certainly know what his abilities are out there.

[Eight]

Baseball Reference

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=9919

CF FLD% .959

LF FLD% .989

RF FLD% .981

So there you go, Luis' WEAKEST OF POSITION is CF

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/paytoja01.shtml

Jay Payton

CF FLD% .986

The rest of the stats clearly favor Payton in center.

Need more?

Yes, I would like more. Minor league fielding percentage over a sample size of 38 games is about as far from a definitive defensive assessment as I can think of.

Payton is, most likely, an average defensive CF. He is definitely a terrible offensive player, one of the worst in the majors to get as many at-bats as he has. Montanez is, most likely, a substantially below average defensive CF, and most likely an average or better hitter.

The question should not be which one is the better defensive CF. The question should be, which possible CF is the best player overall. And I'm fairly confident that that player is Lou Montanez right now.

[JTrea81]

Well lets see J, we have stats, coaches, scouts, players and Luis himself saying that he really can't play center field.

But you say he can so I guess that beats all of those other things.

And you are saying our coaching staff is 100% correct all the time? Explain then the benching of Luke Scott vs. LHP and Millar in the cleanup spot when it was clear he was the worst cleanup hitter in baseball.

A lot of the way players are treated is based on reputation. And some don't get a fair shake or are never pushed so they get the reputation they can't do something because they were never allowed to try it IMO. This organization can't afford to go just on reputation. There are too many role players and not enough versitile players. Trembley doesn't let anybody play outside of their role. If he let Huff play 3B and the OF more often or had Mora move around some, this team would be better for it. But he's sticking to roles and not budging from them and it hurts the overall makeup of the team.

[SilentJames]

Their obligations should be playing for the future as the present will is resulting in a last place team.

Their are multiple reasons why finding out if Montanez can do benefits the Orioles.

1) Find out if his bat is close to his production at AAA this year. Which would mean the light has come on for a former #3 pick.

2) See if he can play adequate in the OF anywhere... otherwise you can try to find out if he could be moved to 1B, 2B, or 3B in the fall league to prepare for next season. If his bat doesn't convert then we wouldn't need to bother.

3) if he looks good then AM could decide to move Scott to try to fill another hole.

Is any of the other guys in the above statement a former top 5 draft pick???

Just a question for you & James ... Were you for or against Guthire when the O's picked him up a few years ago???

Was totally for Guthrie, still am. We had no one better and Guthrie succeeded. But I'm not naive enough to think that he is an "ace" on another team with better pitchers.

The point is this, People keep saying Jay isn't the future, well Luis isn't really the future either. fourth outfielders are a dime a dozen and that is all he will ever be on this team. With Nick, Adam and Luke/ Nolan being the starters (or projected starters) over the next five+ years.

He is a fourth outfielder, play him like one.