Matusz Article

[dcterp]

That said, my expectation is that the Os would have discussed signing parameters with Matusz before drafting him and I believe they did to avoid the very scenario that is playing out now. So, I think this entire episode is disappointing.

Bingo. Everyone should remember that Jordan said right after the draft that they had two people they were targeting at that pick and they went with Matusz. I would expect that if Jordan and MacPhail had known that Matusz's salary demands were going to end up far beyond what was originally anticipated, the Orioles might have gone another direction on draft day.

[NCRaven]

All of this is a process and a super-large majority of kids drafted get signed.

I do not begrudge the prospects and agents for asking all they can because, once they sign, the system works very much in favor of management. Just look at what Nick Markakis should be paid this year and what he is being paid. We signed Nick for aroudn $1.7M IIRC and we are paying him around $450k this year and his production is probably worth north of $10M. In other words, THIS ONE YEAR from Markakis justifies the entire amount spend on the Os 2003 draft from a cost basis even though the club also benefited from Markakis production last year and will for the next couple of years - not to mention how much Chris Ray (from the same draft) has contributed above his salary.

So, I have no issue with Matusz getting all he can now because he will not be able to dictate receiving fair market value as compensation for at least six years after he makes the majors.

That said, my expectation is that the Os would have discussed signing parameters with Matusz before drafting him and I believe they did to avoid the very scenario that is playing out now. So, I think this entire episode is disappointing. I am sure if the Os truly left the ball in Wieters court last year and did not know whether he would accept their offer or not until 10 minutes before the deadline that the Os were probably looking to avoid the same situation this year. This is disappointing.

I do not want it to be the Orioles, but it would be interesting if a team or two told their draftees to go pound sand and get back into the pool. If this became a more real threat to draft picks and agents, they might behave a little different.

Outstanding points. My biggest disappointment in this process is not how long it's taking. As it's been pointed out, there's no reason for one of the top players to sign early. However, when a player indicates before we draft him, what it will take, then changes his mind (see our 10th round pick even more so than Matusz), I can't blame Jordan and MacPhail for getting "concerned." And, when they make a ham-handed attempt to negotiate through the media, as they obviously did on Monday and yesterday, it really looks like amateur hour.

Does anyone know who this agent has represented in the past? I not familiar with his name, and I'm beginning to understand why.

[Tony-OH]

Here's the thing though, If Mausz was upfront with his reportedly $5 million demands and the Orioles took him and then balked, it would be on them. But when a kid/agent tells the teams the neighborhood of where he will sign and then changes that once he's drafted, at some point the teams have to make a stand.

I've heard some interesting things about this negotiations that I can't share right now but needless to say, as much as I would love to have Matusz in the system, this agent of his is something else. If the Orioles offer in the neighborhood of $3-$4 million and the guy doesn't sign, then more power to him trying to get that much in next year's draft as a 22-year old.

At least guys like Posey and Smoak were upfront with their high demands...

[Tony-OH]

Outstanding points. My biggest disappointment in this process is not how long it's taking. As it's been pointed out, there's no reason for one of the top players to sign early. However, when a player indicates before we draft him, what it will take, then changes his mind (see our 10th round pick even more so than Matusz), I can't blame Jordan and MacPhail for getting "concerned." And, when they make a ham-handed attempt to negotiate through the media, as they obviously did on Monday and yesterday, it really looks like amateur hour.

Does anyone know who this agent has represented in the past? I not familiar with his name, and I'm beginning to understand why.

Yeah, you have to wonder about Agar. It's so important for a young player to get the right adviser who understands the delicate balance between using leverage to get the best deal for his client while still maintaining a professional relationship with the teams.

Playing bait and switch games and having your young client make press statements sure does make things seem a bit like amateur hour.

Hopefully Matusz signs and people can put this stuff behind, but it certainly does leave a bad tastes in fans mouth right off the bat.

I know some people are going to point towards Wieters and the fact he wasn't signed to the last minute, but everyone knew it was a process with him because his agent is Scott Boras and Boras floated the $10 million tag up front.

[zff4]

I'm guessing that when the Wieter's money was mentioned, Joe Jordan said, "yeah, kid's worth it, every penny," and the front office nodded and went to work.

Will Joe say that about 5 mil for Matusz?

If he says "maybe", then I think MacPhail is going to bail.

I don't think the Matusz camp should get into a staring contest with MacPhail. Andy might have blinked for Price, had we been lucky enought to get into that situation, but I don't think he'll blink for Matusz.

[Intimidator301]

I think the Adam Loewen situation figures into this a great deal on several fronts.

1. I would hope the O's have learned their lesson about giving out ML contracts to recent draftees, especially pitchers.

2. We really don't have a LH potential longterm starter in the system, other then Olson. ( and I'm doubting he's a longterm solution).

3. We have to fill the expectations we had for Loewen, and fill a need. Especially since MacPhail himself said he'd rather not go into the FA pool to obtain SP.

4. The O's paid top $ to sign Loewen at the time, will they be suspect to do that again for a pitcher. They did let Wade Towsend walk. ( thankfully, now looking back)

I think in the end, Matusz will get signed in the $3.5 mil range. Maybe higher then some want to go, but that will all be forgotten in 2011, when we have 3 15+ game winners in Tillman, Matusz, and Arrieta leading us into the ALCS! I mean really, doesn't this five man have you salivating?

1. Tillman

2. Matusz

3. Arrieta

4. Guthrie

5. Bergeson

[tywright]

I'm guessing that when the Wieter's money was mentioned, Joe Jordan said, "yeah, kid's worth it, every penny," and the front office nodded and went to work.

Will Joe say that about 5 mil for Matusz?

If he says "maybe", then I think MacPhail is going to bail.

I don't think the Matusz camp should get into a staring contest with MacPhail. Andy might have blinked for Price, had we been lucky enought to get into that situation, but I don't think he'll blink for Matusz.

Wieters was drafted under Duquette. IRC Duquette and Boras had discussion prior to the draft and that a deal was going to be reached sooner than it was. Then AM was hired and that had to start from square one.

[NewMarketSean]

I don't know much about signing drafted players in baseball, but $4-5 million for a 4th overall pick sounds fair to me. And like someone else said, if its not a MLB ready deal, then it's all the more reason to give him the money.

[Sports Guy]

Here's the thing though, If Mausz was upfront with his reportedly $5 million demands and the Orioles took him and then balked, it would be on them. But when a kid/agent tells the teams the neighborhood of where he will sign and then changes that once he's drafted, at some point the teams have to make a stand.

I've heard some interesting things about this negotiations that I can't share right now but needless to say, as much as I would love to have Matusz in the system, this agent of his is something else. If the Orioles offer in the neighborhood of $3-$4 million and the guy doesn't sign, then more power to him trying to get that much in next year's draft as a 22-year old.

At least guys like Posey and Smoak were upfront with their high demands...

I have to agree with Tony on this one.

Look, i would give this kid 8 million before I would give Payton 4 million but that's not the point.

Reading between the lines of Tony's post, it tells me that this agent is a complete jerkoff and then, on top of that, Matusz tries to "appease the fans" with this bs letter where he was basically crying poor me.

Last year, i would have done what it would have took to get Wieters done but that was a special case.

I would hate to see us not get this done but there is no way this kid should get 3.5+ million.

I see where Aaron Crow is asking for 8-10 million and a ML deal...LOL, now that is funny but it is also why the Matusz stuff is happening.

[tywright]

If I were the agent and saw the O's overpaying for draft picks (Wieters, Arrieta, Bundy, Beal, Miclat, Drake, etc.) then I'd be asking for way over slot too.

Then again if you renege you lose all credibility as a agent and that reputation gets around quick. Basically Agar is shooting himself in the foot right now.

[YardBirds13]

Question about the deadline:

Everyone has said it's the 15th, at midnight.

So does that mean the deadline ends right before midnight of the 16th (Friday night)?

Or does it literally end the 15th at midnight (Thursday night)?

Baically I'm asking which night I need to be stressed out on here clicking refresh.

[hoosiers]

If I were the agent and saw the O's overpaying for draft picks (Wieters, Arrieta, Bundy, Beal, Miclat, Drake, etc.) then I'd be asking for way over slot too.

Then again if you renege you lose all credibility as a agent and that reputation gets around quick. Basically Agar is shooting himself in the foot right now.

Every situation is unique. Wieters was overslot, but he was a once every five to 10 years catching prospect. Arrietta had high bonus demands up front and slipped in the draft and held out for what he wanted. Bundy had injury issues and slid in the draft, but Bundy probably also communicated what it would take to sign him. etc, etc, etc.

Matusz did not slip in the draft. He was drafted fourth overall based on merit. He can make a case for getting above slot based on merit, but I do not consider him much better than early first round picks like Reynolds, Lincoln, Vitters, that he should be asking north of $3.5M. Fair $ for this pick is between $2.75M and $3.25M.

[Sports Guy]

Every situation is unique. Wieters was overslot, but he was a once every five to 10 years catching prospect. Arrietta had high bonus demands up front and slipped in the draft and held out for what he wanted. Bundy had injury issues and slid in the draft, but Bundy probably also communicated what it would take to sign him. etc, etc, etc.

Matusz did not slip in the draft. He was drafted fourth overall based on merit. He can make a case for getting above slot based on merit, but I do not consider him much better than early first round picks like Reynolds, Lincoln, Vitters, that he should be asking north of $3.5M. Fair $ for this pick is between $2.75M and $3.25M.

Yep..100% agree, especially the bolded part.

Of course, according to his letter, fair is all he is looking for.

[JTrea81]

Question about the deadline:

Everyone has said it's the 15th, at midnight.

So does that mean the deadline ends right before midnight of the 16th (Friday night)?

Or does it literally end the 15th at midnight (Thursday night)?

Baically I'm asking which night I need to be stressed out on here clicking refresh.

Friday night, join all the other Oriole fans as we hit refresh on our keyboards in unison...

[ChaosLex]

Here's the thing though, If Mausz was upfront with his reportedly $5 million demands and the Orioles took him and then balked, it would be on them. But when a kid/agent tells the teams the neighborhood of where he will sign and then changes that once he's drafted, at some point the teams have to make a stand.

I've heard some interesting things about this negotiations that I can't share right now but needless to say, as much as I would love to have Matusz in the system, this agent of his is something else. If the Orioles offer in the neighborhood of $3-$4 million and the guy doesn't sign, then more power to him trying to get that much in next year's draft as a 22-year old.

At least guys like Posey and Smoak were upfront with their high demands...

If Matusz doesn't sign, let it be known that a lot of us wanted Smoak anyway. :angryfire: