Every time the O's start Blach they are tanking

[ScGO's]

Just now, Philip said:

Has Ynoa shown enough to stay? He has some acceptable outings but not enough to warrant keeping, IMO, unless there’s no one remotely better behind him, and I’d be more willing to try unproven guys than keep throwing known bad guys out there.

I commented on Ynoa a few days back about how if you look at some of the peripherals, if used correctly (not a starter) he hasn't done any better or worse than Castro, Fry, Armstrong, etc.  I think he is the perfect guy to follow an opener or fill innings if one of our guys tanks.  He just needs to be given that role and allowed to stick with it.  If he is given that role and he can't handle it by the middle of May next year, then DFA him.

[DrungoHazewood]

Even with this year's poor performances Blach has a MLB ERA of 4.99 and a FIP of 4.42.  Not all that many 2019 Orioles who can say they have a better record.

[Il BuonO]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

I know.  If not Blach, who?

Well they don't need a starter.  They have 13 fricking relievers.   And when Bowie is done with the playoffs they can add a 14th with Taylor Scott. 

Also Shepherd was pitcher of the month at AAA in August.  As a starter.  How have him? 

Then again maybe tanking is the plan.

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, atomic said:

I hope they sign a bunch of guys to minor league deals with opt outs. And get a couple of guys better than DFA guys to be starters.  Trumbo and Cashner's salaries are gone so they can spend $5 million on a starter or two.  I see no reason to do another year like this one with a total tank job. Time to start moving away from being the worst team in the league. 

I’ll be interested to see if Elias feels the same way.    I think the key issue is, we should have a fair amount of pitching talent at Norfolk.    Do we (1) find some decent 1-year starters to protect from needing to call guys up out of desperation, (2) just let the Blachs of the world take their lumps, or (3) push a couple of these Norfolk guys (especially Akin but maybe 1-2 others) into Baltimore fairly early on in the season.    Based on Elias this year, I doubt it’s option 3.    

[Tony-OH]

14 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

 

I'm about done with Brooks and Blach, but I'm still interested in assessing Wojo some more.  I also agree that Sheppard needs to start or what's the point with keeping him.  I also say that Tanner Scott should get a few starts as the "opener."  Throw someone like Ynoa in after him and that might be 6 or 7 quality innings.

I think Wojo has a chance to be a solid long reliever and innings eater out of the pen. While he has had several good long starts, his stuff seems to fall off a bit after the 4th inning. He's pretty tired right now so I wouldn't judge him by his September, but he showed me enough that I think he can stick around for a bit in have some success in the major leagues in the right role.

[weams]

43 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Interested in understanding your definition of a tanking team?

One that uses inferior players when superior ones are available on the 25 man roster. On in September, having Stevie Wilkerson pitch for kicks. 

I do believe that the team was never designed to be a competitive force in the AL East. I believe the manager and the coaches  are trying to win each game.

I do get your  question, by spending more money and possibly sacrificing some minor league depth, a better team could have been built. 

I don't think any of the players on this team are trying to lose. It's not like they are grooving pitches to Derek Jeter like we've done in that past.  

[atomic]

13 minutes ago, weams said:

One that uses inferior players when superior ones are available on the 25 man roster. On in September, having Stevie Wilkerson pitch for kicks. 

I do believe that the team was never designed to be a competitive force in the AL East. I believe the manager and the coaches  are trying to win each game.

I do get your  question, by spending more money and possibly sacrificing some minor league depth, a better team could have been built. 

I don't think any of the players on this team are trying to lose. It's not like they are grooving pitches to Derek Jeter like we've done in that past.  

I don't think the players or manager are trying to lose. In fact, I think sometimes Hyde overused Givens trying to get wins.  But the team was built to lose.  I think they have overachieved some with Alberto and Means well exceeding anyone's expectations. 

[Enjoy Terror]

53 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Interested in understanding your definition of a tanking team?

Can anyone really tell the difference between a team that is purposefully losing games and losing games because they aren’t good?

[Tony-OH]

6 minutes ago, weams said:

One that uses inferior players when superior ones are available on the 25 man roster. On in September, having Stevie Wilkerson pitch for kicks. 

I do believe that the team was never designed to be a competitive force in the AL East. I believe the manager and the coaches  are trying to win each game.

I do get your  question, by spending more money and possibly sacrificing some minor league depth, a better team could have been built. 

I don't think any of the players on this team are trying to lose. It's not like they are grooving pitches to Derek Jeter like we've done in that past.  

That actually wasn't my question actually.

I just wanted you to define when you think a team is tanking.

I agree that there is not one single player, manager or coach in that locker room is trying to lose on purpose. 

I'm 100% on board with how Elias has gone about this season. 

[HowAboutThat]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I think Wojo has a chance to be a solid long reliever and innings eater out of the pen. While he has had several good long starts, his stuff seems to fall off a bit after the 4th inning. He's pretty tired right now so I wouldn't judge him by his September, but he showed me enough that I think he can stick around for a bit in have some success in the major leagues in the right role.

How does one define “inning eater”?

all the guys have thrown too many pitches and given up too many runs to last long. Even if a guy has stamina, unless you’re going to have him throw 6-7 innings regardless of the score, which has never happened, I can’t put any of them in that category.

do we have anyone who fits the definition, whatever that definition is?

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

Can anyone really tell the difference between a team that is purposefully losing games and losing games because they aren’t good?

Well I think the first thing is that players, particularly players who are trying to prove themselves at the major league level, are not going to purposely do badly, so I don't ever think a team tries to lose on purpose.

It's clear this team is lacking major league talent and that at this point of the grind, the losing is starting to take it's toll, no matter how much everyone understand what's going on this year. 

While no one will ever admit this publicly, pretty much everyone who is not still trying to prove they belong most likely can't wait for this season to end. 

 

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Philip said:

How does one define “inning eater”?

all the guys have thrown too many pitches and given up too many runs to last long. Even if a guy has stamina, unless you’re going to have him throw 6-7 innings regardless of the score, which has never happened, I can’t put any of them in that category.

do we have anyone who fits the definition, whatever that definition is?

Just to clarify, I said innings eater out of the pen. That's typically a guy who can give you 3-5 innings when needed.

[weams]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

That actually wasn't my question actually.

I just wanted you to define when you think a team is tanking.

I agree that there is not one single player, manager or coach in that locker room is trying to lose on purpose. 

I'm 100% on board with how Elias has gone about this season. 

I would say that a tank would be to dispose of all useful players and for management to evaluate the manager and team on other terms than effort and winning record. I would see it as an opportunity for players to play 75% strength and stay healthy rather than to entertain and put forth effort. I've seen the Marlins do it. I know the Red Sox did n=one year that I recall. I think that by my definition Theo's first year in Chicago was one. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

23 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Even with this year's poor performances Blach has a MLB ERA of 4.99 and a FIP of 4.42.  Not all that many 2019 Orioles who can say they have a better record.

I looked up Blach's stat line out curiosity last night and he was a serviceable bullpen arm/spot starter just last year. I'm now starting to wonder if he is pitching hurt this year.  

[Enjoy Terror]

42 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Well I think the first thing is that players, particularly players who are trying to prove themselves at the major league level, are not going to purposely do badly, so I don't ever think a team tries to lose on purpose.

I suppose I meant more from a front office perspective; Elias could control how well this team does by not hiring players, not hiring good players, not promoting certain players, thereby affecting how many wins this team has.

Can anyone truly tell if this team is bad because we’re going about a serious rebuild or are the Orioles designed to chase the #1 draft pick?

Some people would argue you should attempt to win a World Series every year and to do anything to the contrary is to lose on purpose (aka “tank”). Others would say an organized approach to winning a future World Series isn’t “tanking”, just “rebuilding”.

I’m not convinced the Orioles are chasing the #1 draft pick.