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People here seem to forget


Mad Mark

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The way statistics are being quoted the next GM hired in baseball will need an accounting degree.

Can't we just agree Huff is having a good year and enjoy it? There will be time later to complain..............................................................................................................about Olson, or R. Hernandez, or Sarfate.

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This is true, but if Huff was 27 or 28 we wouldn't be having this discussion about trading or keeping him. That's where Shack infers his logic from.
If Huff was 27/28 and still a year away from FA, we'd certainly be having a discussion about trading him. The debate would be very similar to Bedard, where you would pretty much either have to extend him or trade him.
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I think the option of trading Huff would be, by far, the greatest option, but for some reason, nobody seems to want him. There was no interest in him in July, and then nobody claimed him off of waivers. I don't really understand it, but teams just aren't interested.

I don't think we'll get a very good offer for him this offseason, so I think holding onto him is probably the best option at this point. But, if a good offer does come along, I definitely make the move.

Yeah I agree and would do the same...especially because I wouldn't want to extend him. I just don't see that his production this year is that out of the ordinary and that he can't duplicate it. If he was Millar or Mora's age then yeah I could see, but he's not. Lots of players have had down years in the middle of their careers.

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Yeah I agree and would do the same...especially because I wouldn't want to extend him. I just don't see that his production this year is that out of the ordinary and that he can't duplicate it. If he was Millar or Mora's age then yeah I could see, but he's not. Lots of players have had down years in the middle of their careers.
I think he can be a good player, but a 30+ HR and .900+ OPS is a bit too much to expect. Something around .850 with 25-30 HRs is the highest I'd expect for him.

Not many players have career years at age 31 after 3-4 years of averageness/medioctrity and then maintain that level or something close to it for multiple years after the "career year". Often times a guy will have a big year after a few down years, but its very rare for that to then become their norm.

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Check out where the good teams are vs the bad teams and also look at the median average wow who is the youngest!;) Huff still old? Just take a second a look at it its not as tuff to read as it looks.

Or you can read it here. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rosters

RNK Team RHB LHB SH RHP LHP HT WT Age Young Old

1 Washington 10 5 2 10 3 6-1 214 27.2 22 35

2 Minnesota 7 6 3 9 4 6-1 210 27.3 22 37

3 Oakland 7 7 2 8 6 6-1 207 27.6 22 40

4 Pittsburgh 8 4 1 9 5 6-1 207 27.7 24 37

5 Texas 6 6 3 13 6 6-2 215 27.7 22 37

6 Tampa Bay 6 6 3 11 3 6-2 206 27.8 22 39

7 Florida 9 5 2 14 5 6-2 207 28.0 21 40

8 Arizona 7 6 3 10 3 6-2 213 28.1 20 44

9 Kansas City 8 7 1 12 4 6-1 203 28.2 22 38

10 Cleveland 10 4 2 11 4 6-1 208 28.2 22 37

11 San Francisco 6 3 5 10 5 6-1 203 28.3 22 41

12 Seattle 9 6 0 8 6 6-1 211 28.4 22 37

13 Baltimore 8 3 2 13 7 6-1 208 28.5 22 37

14 LA Angels 8 1 7 10 2 6-1 207 28.7 23 37

15 Colorado 9 6 1 8 4 6-1 208 28.9 23 38

16 Atlanta 6 5 3 14 4 6-1 202 29.2 22 42

17 Cincinnati 10 5 1 11 3 6-1 210 29.5 21 40

18 Chicago Sox 9 5 1 8 6 6-2 226 29.5 23 38

19 St. Louis 8 4 3 13 4 6-2 211 29.5 22 39

20 San Diego 8 4 4 15 3 6-1 206 29.6 24 42

21 Toronto 9 5 1 10 5 6-1 210 29.8 23 40

22 Milwaukee 9 4 1 10 4 6-1 214 29.8 22 39

23 NY Mets 7 7 5 13 6 6-1 208 30.0 22 42

24 Chicago Cubs 9 4 0 12 3 6-1 206 30.0 23 38

25 NY Yankees 7 6 2 16 3 6-2 217 30.0 22 39

26 Detroit 10 2 2 11 4 6-1 206 30.3 23 43

27 LA Dodgers 11 4 3 14 4 6-1 214 30.4 20 40

28 Boston 7 5 3 12 3 6-2 206 30.5 23 42

29 Philadelphia 7 4 2 11 6 6-1 207 30.8 23 45

30 Houston 9 3 3 9 4 6-0 203 31.3 23 41

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Konerko seems like a guy who goes up and down like Huff, with better and more ups than downs than Huff.
Poor man's Paul Konerko isn't a bad description of Huff, nice call. He's a bit more consistent, and a bit better player in general, but the comparison has some connection.
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Check out where the good teams are vs the bad teams and also look at the median average wow who is the youngest!;) Huff still old? Just take a second a look at it its not as tuff to read as it looks.

Or you can read it here. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rosters

RNK Team RHB LHB SH RHP LHP HT WT Age Young Old

1 Washington 10 5 2 10 3 6-1 214 27.2 22 35

2 Minnesota 7 6 3 9 4 6-1 210 27.3 22 37

3 Oakland 7 7 2 8 6 6-1 207 27.6 22 40

4 Pittsburgh 8 4 1 9 5 6-1 207 27.7 24 37

5 Texas 6 6 3 13 6 6-2 215 27.7 22 37

6 Tampa Bay 6 6 3 11 3 6-2 206 27.8 22 39

7 Florida 9 5 2 14 5 6-2 207 28.0 21 40

8 Arizona 7 6 3 10 3 6-2 213 28.1 20 44

9 Kansas City 8 7 1 12 4 6-1 203 28.2 22 38

10 Cleveland 10 4 2 11 4 6-1 208 28.2 22 37

11 San Francisco 6 3 5 10 5 6-1 203 28.3 22 41

12 Seattle 9 6 0 8 6 6-1 211 28.4 22 37

13 Baltimore 8 3 2 13 7 6-1 208 28.5 22 37

14 LA Angels 8 1 7 10 2 6-1 207 28.7 23 37

15 Colorado 9 6 1 8 4 6-1 208 28.9 23 38

16 Atlanta 6 5 3 14 4 6-1 202 29.2 22 42

17 Cincinnati 10 5 1 11 3 6-1 210 29.5 21 40

18 Chicago Sox 9 5 1 8 6 6-2 226 29.5 23 38

19 St. Louis 8 4 3 13 4 6-2 211 29.5 22 39

20 San Diego 8 4 4 15 3 6-1 206 29.6 24 42

21 Toronto 9 5 1 10 5 6-1 210 29.8 23 40

22 Milwaukee 9 4 1 10 4 6-1 214 29.8 22 39

23 NY Mets 7 7 5 13 6 6-1 208 30.0 22 42

24 Chicago Cubs 9 4 0 12 3 6-1 206 30.0 23 38

25 NY Yankees 7 6 2 16 3 6-2 217 30.0 22 39

26 Detroit 10 2 2 11 4 6-1 206 30.3 23 43

27 LA Dodgers 11 4 3 14 4 6-1 214 30.4 20 40

28 Boston 7 5 3 12 3 6-2 206 30.5 23 42

29 Philadelphia 7 4 2 11 6 6-1 207 30.8 23 45

30 Houston 9 3 3 9 4 6-0 203 31.3 23 41

Oddly enough, I'd say the trend here is that the teams that are older are actually the ones that are better. The middle of the pack teams are the ones that are fairly mediocre in performance with the exception of LA.

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Oddly enough, I'd say the trend here is that the teams that are older are actually the ones that are better. The middle of the pack teams are the ones that are fairly mediocre in performance with the exception of LA.

I think this is one of those stats, where you can have it say just about anything.

NY Mets collapse last year cause they're too old. Red Sox not as good this year because they're up there. So many different ways you can go....

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I think this is one of those stats, where you can have it say just about anything.

NY Mets collapse last year cause they're too old. Red Sox not as good this year because they're up there. So many different ways you can go....

Absolutely. Even the trend of old teams being good is broken by the oldest team which has been pretty terrible this year. I wonder if a breakdown of the age of the pitching staffs would be more telling.

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Lots of players have had down years in the middle of their careers.

Do they really? I'm not trying to be a smart aleck. Is it really common for a player to have a pretty big peak around ages 25-27, then tail off to mediocrity, then have another peak from 31-33 or something?

I'm trying to think of some examples, and haven't come up with any. I thought of Yaz, who was up and down a lot, but he was basically never under an OPS+ of 110. I thought of Ruben Sierra, but he was good early, then kind of hung on as a crappy player for a long time, with a few good years here and there. I looked at all of Huff's comps on bb-ref, and nobody really had a career that fit that mold. Some of them like Richie Zisk had a below-average year in the middle of a good run, but that's about it.

Seriously, I want to see some examples of players who had two peaks, one at the normal time, one in the early-to-mid thirties. I'll look some more, too.

Edit: Eric Davis kind of fits the mold, but there was an obvious reason for his decline: he couldn't stay off the DL for more than about six weeks at a time.

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Since most believe Huff is at his peak value now but that there isn't much of a market for him anyway, why isn't it obvious that keeping him for the draft picks is the best bet? Even if he reverts to his career OPS of .820 something he will be a usefull player for us next year, and who knows he could just as well have another good one. I'm always amused at how people here predict baseball outcomes with such self assurance and certitude. If they were meteorologists and predicted the weather with the same certitude, they would be unemployed.

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I'm always amused at how people here predict baseball outcomes with such self assurance and certitude. If they were meteorologists and predicted the weather with the same certitude, they would be unemployed.

I'm always amused by the people who loathe predictions and projections, yet seem to think they're much better at it because they think the people doing the projections are always wrong.

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Do they really? I'm not trying to be a smart aleck. Is it really common for a player to have a pretty big peak around ages 25-27, then tail off to mediocrity, then have another peak from 31-33 or something?

I'm trying to think of some examples, and haven't come up with any. I thought of Yaz, who was up and down a lot, but he was basically never under an OPS+ of 110. I thought of Ruben Sierra, but he was good early, then kind of hung on as a crappy player for a long time, with a few good years here and there. I looked at all of Huff's comps on bb-ref, and nobody really had a career that fit that mold. Some of them like Richie Zisk had a below-average year in the middle of a good run, but that's about it.

Seriously, I want to see some examples of players who had two peaks, one at the normal time, one in the early-to-mid thirties. I'll look some more, too.

Edit: Eric Davis kind of fits the mold, but there was an obvious reason for his decline: he couldn't stay off the DL for more than about six weeks at a time.

Reggie Sanders had the classic yo-yo career.

1995 at age 27 - 154 OPS+

1999 at age 31 - 134 OPS+

2003 at age 35 - 127 OPS+

Between those high points were some pretty mediocre seasons. Like Eric Davis, Sanders always had trouble staying healthy. Over 17 years, he only had six with more than 450 AB (including the three mentioned above), and only one over 500.

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Absolutely. Even the trend of old teams being good is broken by the oldest team which has been pretty terrible this year. I wonder if a breakdown of the age of the pitching staffs would be more telling.

And the other thing to consider...What is age of lineup? Key Players? Looking at the Phillies they got two pretty old guys in Tom Gordon and Jamie Moyer, but some pretty young guys in Hamels, Howard, Utley, Rollins, Burrell that lead the team. Problem with Philly is not them being old, but that their pitching just stinks (not Moyer's fault though, he's their second best pitcher).

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